APP - Turing Test and Humans

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midcan5

Member
Years ago I tried to write an expert system - they used to be big in technology (still are), follow the lines, answer the question, and soon you arrive at the answer. I gave up the expert system and instead wrote a monthly tips newsletter for the first PC users. But the experience taught me about complexity and problem solving.

So how many out there believe AI is possible? Computers today try to solve your problem immediately, I find it a useless function 99% of the time. Does anyone remember Eliza? http://www-ai.ijs.si/eliza/eliza.html This was so real to some they thought a person was behind the answers. Are we any more sophisticated today? Are computers?

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~cfs/472_html/Intro/NYT_Intro/History/MachineIntelligence1.html

Suppose instead we reversed the Turing test and the test were to judge us? Can we think 'outside the box' while a buzzword, can we? Or are we so predictable, I can ask you a question and know lots about you? http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?23529-Which-is-which

I tested one AI program below, it failed. Your thoughts?
============================================

hello
'Hi there!'

are you green
'Most people think I am white.'

why
'It is part of my personality.'

that is biased
'You don't hear that sentiment very often.'

- so I tried over again and got this -

why
'Because my botmaster taught me it.' [is the bot master mom should have been my next question.]

so you aren't real?
'Interesting deduction. Thanks for the information.'

Fails Turing test totally imho. What do you think?


http://www.turinghub.com/
http://testing.turinghub.com/


Worth a read

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/magazine/dont-blink-the-hazards-of-confidence.html
http://www.amazon.com/Being-Certain-Believing-Right-Youre/dp/031254152X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8

Fictional account of problem: http://www.amazon.com/Galatea-2-2-Novel-Richard-Powers/dp/B004KAB4D8/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8

PS This stuff came back to me reading David Deutsch's 'the beginning of infinity.'
 
midcan5 said:
Years ago I tried to write an expert system - they used to be big in technology (still are), follow the lines, answer the question, and soon you arrive at the answer. I gave up the expert system and instead wrote a monthly tips newsletter for the first PC users. But the experience taught me about complexity and problem solving.

So how many out there believe AI is possible? Computers today try to solve your problem immediately, I find it a useless function 99% of the time. Does anyone remember Eliza? http://www-ai.ijs.si/eliza/eliza.html This was so real to some they thought a person was behind the answers. Are we any more sophisticated today? Are computers?

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~cfs/472_html/Intro/NYT_Intro/History/MachineIntelligence1.html

Suppose instead we reversed the Turing test and the test were to judge us? Can we think 'outside the box' while a buzzword, can we? Or are we so predictable, I can ask you a question and know lots about you? http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?23529-Which-is-which

I tested one AI program below, it failed. Your thoughts?
============================================

hello
'Hi there!'

are you green
'Most people think I am white.'

why
'It is part of my personality.'

that is biased
'You don't hear that sentiment very often.'

- so I tried over again and got this -

why
'Because my botmaster taught me it.' [is the bot master mom should have been my next question.]

so you aren't real?
'Interesting deduction. Thanks for the information.'

Fails Turing test totally imho. What do you think?


http://www.turinghub.com/
http://testing.turinghub.com/


Worth a read

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/magazine/dont-blink-the-hazards-of-confidence.html
http://www.amazon.com/Being-Certain-Believing-Right-Youre/dp/031254152X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8

Fictional account of problem: http://www.amazon.com/Galatea-2-2-Novel-Richard-Powers/dp/B004KAB4D8/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8

PS This stuff came back to me reading David Deutsch's 'the beginning of infinity.'
Click to expand...

Most people now know about Alan Turing but what about Bill Tutte and Tommy Flowers? They were the men behind the decoding of the Tunny code which gave the British direct access to the thinking of the German high command and more importantly the eccentric thought processes of Hitler himself. Without them the battle of Kurtz, the Italian campaign and even D-Day would have been most certainly failures.

http://www.computerweekly.com/Artic...s-of-IT-The-story-of-Bill-Tutte-and-Tommy.htm
 
Speaking as the Millenial, I would hope you older gents, who lived before Windows DOS and Macintosh would be at least on the same page as me, as computers are supposed to be less impressive to me.

That said, in the span of a decade, I personally saw computers rapidly evolve from the Apple-88 to the iMac, and I saw the revolutionary Windows 95, and more famous successor, Windows 98, come about. I witnessed the rise of the world wide web for commercial use as a young elementary school student, who was taught to utilize the world of search engines pre-Google (Try Yahoo!, if not try Lycos, if not try Ask... E-Library, Webcrawler, etc.).

It has always seemed so impressive to me what we have managed in such a short span of time. I am impressed with the invention of e-mail attachments, and how much they have made life easier. The list goes on, and even the technology that allowed for the Ferbie toy to be set loose on an unsuspecting public was a highly impressive feat.

In just 23 years, we have gotten from the Apple-88 to the iPad, and 20 years after the HTTP, we are talking about the near-arrival of Web 2.0 technology. If we can manage all of that in such a short span of time, where will a society which is constantly building upon computer and smart phone technology be in another 20?

I personally tend to view AI in the same category as I do science fiction, nor am I highly enthusiastic about potentially seeing it developed, but information technology is going to be pretty damned impressive one way or another.
 
Phanes said:
Speaking as the Millenial, I would hope you older gents, who lived before Windows DOS and Macintosh would be at least on the same page as me, as computers are supposed to be less impressive to me....
Click to expand...

We can't all be like you Threedee, that would be kinda boring don't you think? Having taught computers to children and to seniors, one thing I tell them frequently is a computer is only a tool, and often a dumb tool that gets itself in all sorts of trouble.

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." Bill Gates, 1981
 
midcan5 said:
We can't all be like you Threedee, that would be kinda boring don't you think? Having taught computers to children and to seniors, one thing I tell them frequently is a computer is only a tool, and often a dumb tool that gets itself in all sorts of trouble.

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." Bill Gates, 1981
Click to expand...

too true, i wrote my first endless loop in 1963 in machine language (it was intentionally endless, i have written a few others in various languages since...unintentionally :) )

i think that AI will occur someday and that it will be the end of humanity, but i suspect that i will be dead by then, at least i hope that i am

ps it was 512K not 640K and ms-dos 1.1 sucked, cpm was not too bad but assembly language rules
 
Don Quixote said:
too true, i wrote my first endless loop in 1963 in machine language (it was intentionally endless, i have written a few others in various languages since...unintentionally :) )

i think that AI will occur someday and that it will be the end of humanity, but i suspect that i will be dead by then, at least i hope that i am

ps it was 512K not 640K and ms-dos 1.1 sucked, cpm was not too bad but assembly language rules
Click to expand...

He claims that he never said that 640k was enough for anyone.

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/1997/01/1484
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
He claims that he never said that 640k was enough for anyone.

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/1997/01/1484
Click to expand...

that is an interesting claim

ms-dos could not handle more than 512k until version 3.2 (version 3.3 was supposed to handle 640k but it was so bad that people went back to version 3.2 - i am not sure, but version 3.1 may have been able to handle 640k also

then window came along and ms has been chaos ever since...hackers loved the early versions of windows

oh well

ps i have no room to talk, i still use a pc based computer while my wife uses an apple based computer...
 
Don Quixote said:
too true, i wrote my first endless loop in 1963 in machine language (it was intentionally endless, i have written a few others in various languages since...unintentionally :) )

i think that AI will occur someday and that it will be the end of humanity, but i suspect that i will be dead by then, at least i hope that i am

ps it was 512K not 640K and ms-dos 1.1 sucked, cpm was not too bad but assembly language rules
Click to expand...

AI will be the end of humanity?!!

Nooo. It will be a whole new beginning. I can't wait until possession of robots are as common as cars. The only problem might be Mr. Smith's robot "Jack" talking over the back fence to Ms. Jone's robot "Jill". On the other hand maybe they (the robots) will plan a B-B-Q and Smith and Jones get together. ;)

I hope I live long enough but the developers better hurry. I'm no spring chicken. :(
 
LOL funny replies, one of my earliest working memories is 256k booting v2.1 DOS and a 5MB Bernoulli box with wordperfect and lotus123. I forget the versions of the apps. My machine programming usually ended in cold starts. Remember dbase, Q&A, ccMail, those were the days. I used to have copies of all DOS versions as people constantly deleted command.com.

As for the Gates' quote, who knows, he made have forgotten in his quest to conquer all competitors. What was that board added to the PC that gave you a whole MB of extended memory? Anyone remember Banyan and Novell? I saw Novell in an ad on obsolescence recently.

Tongue in cheek, as for AI I doubt it will ever approach anything more than - or better - than a psychopath's replies? Humor or facial hints will be beyond it for a long time. Google AI sites and test it, it hasn't come very far from Eliza.

http://alice.pandorabots.com/
 
Don Quixote said:
that is an interesting claim

ms-dos could not handle more than 512k until version 3.2 (version 3.3 was supposed to handle 640k but it was so bad that people went back to version 3.2 - i am not sure, but version 3.1 may have been able to handle 640k also

then window came along and ms has been chaos ever since...hackers loved the early versions of windows

oh well

ps i have no room to talk, i still use a pc based computer while my wife uses an apple based computer...
Click to expand...

Early Windows had a pretty terrible design. It really wasn't until Windows 7 that Windows adopted a lot of the modern security architecture that made Unix based system so secure. Of course, Linux is still more secure, and Windows is still a bigger target and so of course will get more viruses thrown at it no matter what.
 
To be fair, I was surprised to learn that Linux actually used a non-preemptive kernel (just like DOS) until around 2003, making it pretty terrible for any sort of desktop applications. I guess there was a reason I didn't really hear about Linux outside of a server context until around that time.
 
midcan5 said:
LOL funny replies, one of my earliest working memories is 256k booting v2.1 DOS and a 5MB Bernoulli box with wordperfect and lotus123. I forget the versions of the apps. My machine programming usually ended in cold starts. Remember dbase, Q&A, ccMail, those were the days. I used to have copies of all DOS versions as people constantly deleted command.com.

As for the Gates' quote, who knows, he made have forgotten in his quest to conquer all competitors. What was that board added to the PC that gave you a whole MB of extended memory? Anyone remember Banyan and Novell? I saw Novell in an ad on obsolescence recently.

Tongue in cheek, as for AI I doubt it will ever approach anything more than - or better - than a psychopath's replies? Humor or facial hints will be beyond it for a long time. Google AI sites and test it, it hasn't come very far from Eliza.

http://alice.pandorabots.com/
Click to expand...

We don't even have computers that can really understand language yet (obviously, automatic translation is little than what you'd expect of a human who barely even knows the language). It turns out that language is a very, very complicated phenomena. Until we can build a good model of the unit in your head that allows you to intuitively understand language, I don't think we're going to go very far with AI.
 
Watermark Tzu said:
We don't even have computers that can really understand language yet (obviously, automatic translation is little than what you'd expect of a human who barely even knows the language). It turns out that language is a very, very complicated phenomena. Until we can build a good model of the unit in your head that allows you to intuitively understand language, I don't think we're going to go very far with AI.
Click to expand...

Why would it have to understand language? It could be run with a remote control and basic commands. For example, once the dimensions of a home are programmed into it, it could be programmed to get a beer from the fridge. :)

Or put the cereal and milk on the table for breakfast. If the location of the cereal box and the milk were constant it would just be a repetitive task each morning. After breakfast, replace the cereal and milk. Couldn't something like that be easily programmed into a machine?
 
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