Vietnam Question - Rana

Darla said:
No Rana is correct, he did. The reason you can't find it is because you are looking for ground troops and you state in your OP. THey were called "advisors", and it was Eisenhower. I will find a source for you later, I have to go out. But she's correct.

I have all this shit in my head because I read a lot of history, but don't always remember a source, sorry.
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Sinn Fein said:
"Advisors" was...politispeak. They were special forces troops mostly. We had been in Vietnam since WW2 in some capacity.
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cawacko said:
I am aware he sent advisors. Kennedy sent advisors too. These sites are saying no ground troops until 1965. You disagree?
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Sinn Fein said:
You were/are right. Eisenhower sent in combat troops, as did Kennedy, Roosevelt, and Truman. In the latter two it was almost all OSS guys but still.
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Rana said:
In all fairness the key word there is units.
It doesn't mean there was no military involvement.
They use the word escalated and my original argument was that the memorial wall for vets of that war say the war was started under Eisenhower, Kennedy sent in some military troop and then Johnson escalated it to full blown. Eisenhower administration was into some covert stuff, this was the beginning if the Cold War and the fight against Communusm if you remember.
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Mott the Hoople said:
Rana's right. Ike sent military advisors into Vietnam. I read it in Stanly Karnow's classic "Vietnam: A History."
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wrong...
--------------------------
The U.S. military advisory effort in Vietnam had a modest beginning in September 1950, when the United States Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG), Vietnam, was established in Saigon. FACT

Harry Truman was President in Sept. 1950............FACT

Ike did not become President until 1953

and the area was still known as French Indo-China (if you're into word games)

U.S.combat units were deployed beginning in 1965 (LBJ)

THIS is history.....

Under Ike and Kennedy, the advisors were given permission to defend themselves when attacked with force....to fight back with vigor....(escalation)

The "advisors" were littered with CIA and Special Ops of the era....armed but were not supposed to take offensive action.....officially....

The bold line above is the governments official line and obviously escalation occurred over the entire 15 years ....

ADVISORS were first sent by Harry Truman in 1950 and COMBAT TROOPS by LBJ in 1965....

Any books on the subject is conjecture and the 'so called facts' will vary form author to author depending on their political bias...
 
U.S. MILITARY CASUALTIES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA -
- DEATHS BY CALENDAR YEAR -
- Year of death may either be actual or based on a presumptive finding of death -
- (originally declared missing and later declared dead). -
- AS OF MARCH 31, 1997

1957 - 1
1958 - 0
1959 - 2
1960 - 5
1961 - 16
1962 - 53
1963 - 118
1964 - 206
1965 - 1,863
1966 - 6,144
1967 - 11,153
1968 - 16,589
1969 - 11,614
1970 - 6,083
1971 - 2,357
1972 - 640
1973 - 168
1974 - 178
1975 - 160
1976 - 77
1977 - 96
1978 - 447
1979 - 148
1980-1995 - 66

TOTAL DEATHS - 58,178
 
Rana said:
This is a good article that supports the reason the war started under Einsenhower, I was confused on some of my details.

I also can't find the book readily, sorry, so for now I will have to concede I can't back up my argument.

http://m.historytoday.com/viv-sanders/turning-points-vietnam-war
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Great article Rana. John Foster Dulles was the scourge of the State Department, the CIA and he and his brother undermined our relations in South America for personal gain. He was the first 'fundie' and a danger to America. As head of the CIA he lied to President Kennedy about the Bay of Pigs invasion in an attempt to sucker Kennedy into invading Cuba. Kennedy warned Dulles he would not commit US troops if the invasion failed, Dulles knew it had no chance of success. Kennedy kept his word. Kennedy was so pissed he fired Dulles's ass and threatened to to "shatter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds." J.F.K. never followed through on this threat, but he did eventually fire Dulles, despite his stature as a legendary spymaster, as well as Bissell.

Here is a fascinating article about that period in our history...

John F. Kennedy - Warrior For Peace - Time Magazine
 
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cawacko said:
Dude, those two... Good Night.
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LOL I just remembered that whole General Giap thing and I can't recall the particulars, I remember laughing over it a lot though. I know though, I know. I used to be amazed. I would never say anything to Scott about it though. Not because he was "on my side" but because he was hot. That's how I am.
 
Darla said:
LOL I just remembered that whole General Giap thing and I can't recall the particulars, I remember laughing over it a lot though. I know though, I know. I used to be amazed. I would never say anything to Scott about it though. Not because he was "on my side" but because he was hot. That's how I am.
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I remember a lot about Abba and Scott and them always going back and forth but I don't recall a thing about General Giap. That must have been the one time in 7 years I took a week off from the board or something. Haha.

You saw Scott's picture? He was a good looking dude? Was he our age?
 
Darla said:
LOL I just remembered that whole General Giap thing and I can't recall the particulars, I remember laughing over it a lot though. I know though, I know. I used to be amazed. I would never say anything to Scott about it though. Not because he was "on my side" but because he was hot. That's how I am.
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She tried to claim that Giap said in his memoir that American anti-war protestors were the cause of America's defeat. But all the research showed he never said that. She was trying to say that all of us against the Iraq war were no better that traitors.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/giap.asp
 
cawacko said:
I remember a lot about Abba and Scott and them always going back and forth but I don't recall a thing about General Giap. That must have been the one time in 7 years I took a week off from the board or something. Haha.

You saw Scott's picture? He was a good looking dude? Was he our age?
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He was a couple of years older than me. I had a major thing for him. Yes he was hot. And I mostly loved his personality. He was a bit OCD, but that never bothered me. He was protective of me a lot too. I don't know, he was just hot. Yes, I knew him off board a bit, I think I was the only one. No maybe CLoud did too.
 
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