War Games

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I think that these two developing stories, indicate a situation that is developing right under our noses, while we're all concentrating on what a bitch Katie Couric was (and she was!), and the debacle in the Justice Department.

I'm not, NOT, saying that the UK should not be trying to get their people back. But coupled with a new US show of force in the persian gulf today...where does it all lead? Probably nowhere I'm going to want to be.

Blair Toughens Stance on Seized Britons
By ALAN COWELL
LONDON, March 27 — As tensions escalate between Iran and the West, Prime Minster Tony Blair warned today that Britain’s campaign to free 15 captured British naval personnel would move into a “different phase” if they were not released.

Just days after the United Nations Security Council voted for tougher sanctions against Iran in a separate dispute over its nuclear ambitions, Mr. Blair’s remarks seemed intended to ratchet up pressure on Teheran and counter criticism at home that his government has responded timidly to the crisis. The eight British sailors and seven marines captured by Iran include one woman identified today as Faye Turney, 26.

Mr. Blair told the morning television station GMTV today that Britain was trying “to make the Iranian government understand these people have to be released and that there is absolutely no justification for holding them.”

“I hope we manage to get them to realize they have to release them,” Mr. Blair said. “If not, then this will move into a different phase, but at the moment what we’re trying to do is make sure that that diplomatic initiative works.”

Officials in Mr. Blair’s office and at the British Foreign Office insisted that the prime minister was referring specifically to a tougher diplomatic posture, not to military or other more confrontational means even as United States warships maneuver in the Persian Gulf for their biggest naval exercises there since the invasion of Iraq four years ago.

Full Story: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/27/world/middleeast/27cnd-iran.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

U.S. Navy flexes muscles in Persian Gulf By JAMES CALDERWOOD and JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writers
4 minutes ago



American warplanes screamed off two aircraft carriers Tuesday as the U.S. Navy staged its largest show of force in the Persian Gulf since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, launching a mammoth exercise meant as a message to the Iranians.

The maneuvers with 15 warships and more than 100 aircraft were sure to heighten tensions with Iran, which has frequently condemned the U.S. military presence off its coast and is in a faceoff with the West over its nuclear program and its capture of a British naval team.

While they would not say when the war games were planned, U.S. commanders insisted the exercises were not a direct response to Friday's seizure of the 15 British sailors and marines, but they also made clear that the flexing of the Navy's military might was intended as a warning.

"If there is strong presence, then it sends a clear message that you better be careful about trying to intimidate others," said Capt. Bradley Johanson, commander of the Stennis.

"Iran has adopted a very escalatory posture with the things that they have done," he added.

The exercises began four days after Iranian forces detained the 15 Britons for allegedly being in Iranian territorial waters near the northern end of the Gulf. U.S. and British officials insist the team was properly searching cargo vessels inside Iraqi waters.

F/A-18 fighter jets roared off the Stennis' flight deck all day, mounting a dozen rapid-fire training sorties against imaginary enemy ships and aircraft. A second task force with the carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower also took part in the drills.

Full Story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070327...s_maneuvers;_ylt=AiV7pQhd1VQ7W.S3BY9iHnWs0NUE
 
Iran says the detainees have been treated humanely and not tortured, well by Bush's standards of torture anyway....
What's a little waterboarding among friends anyway ?

Bush is using this event like he used 911...

I think he has been reading "my little ethanol" to greenies while this is going on.
 
I think that these two developing stories, indicate a situation that is developing right under our noses, while we're all concentrating on what a bitch Katie Couric was (and she was!), and the debacle in the Justice Department.

I'm not, NOT, saying that the UK should not be trying to get their people back. But coupled with a new US show of force in the persian gulf today...where does it all lead? Probably nowhere I'm going to want to be.

Blair Toughens Stance on Seized Britons
By ALAN COWELL
LONDON, March 27 — As tensions escalate between Iran and the West, Prime Minster Tony Blair warned today that Britain’s campaign to free 15 captured British naval personnel would move into a “different phase” if they were not released.

Just days after the United Nations Security Council voted for tougher sanctions against Iran in a separate dispute over its nuclear ambitions, Mr. Blair’s remarks seemed intended to ratchet up pressure on Teheran and counter criticism at home that his government has responded timidly to the crisis. The eight British sailors and seven marines captured by Iran include one woman identified today as Faye Turney, 26.

Mr. Blair told the morning television station GMTV today that Britain was trying “to make the Iranian government understand these people have to be released and that there is absolutely no justification for holding them.”

“I hope we manage to get them to realize they have to release them,” Mr. Blair said. “If not, then this will move into a different phase, but at the moment what we’re trying to do is make sure that that diplomatic initiative works.”

Officials in Mr. Blair’s office and at the British Foreign Office insisted that the prime minister was referring specifically to a tougher diplomatic posture, not to military or other more confrontational means even as United States warships maneuver in the Persian Gulf for their biggest naval exercises there since the invasion of Iraq four years ago.

Full Story: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/27/world/middleeast/27cnd-iran.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

U.S. Navy flexes muscles in Persian Gulf By JAMES CALDERWOOD and JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writers
4 minutes ago



American warplanes screamed off two aircraft carriers Tuesday as the U.S. Navy staged its largest show of force in the Persian Gulf since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, launching a mammoth exercise meant as a message to the Iranians.

The maneuvers with 15 warships and more than 100 aircraft were sure to heighten tensions with Iran, which has frequently condemned the U.S. military presence off its coast and is in a faceoff with the West over its nuclear program and its capture of a British naval team.

While they would not say when the war games were planned, U.S. commanders insisted the exercises were not a direct response to Friday's seizure of the 15 British sailors and marines, but they also made clear that the flexing of the Navy's military might was intended as a warning.

"If there is strong presence, then it sends a clear message that you better be careful about trying to intimidate others," said Capt. Bradley Johanson, commander of the Stennis.

"Iran has adopted a very escalatory posture with the things that they have done," he added.

The exercises began four days after Iranian forces detained the 15 Britons for allegedly being in Iranian territorial waters near the northern end of the Gulf. U.S. and British officials insist the team was properly searching cargo vessels inside Iraqi waters.

F/A-18 fighter jets roared off the Stennis' flight deck all day, mounting a dozen rapid-fire training sorties against imaginary enemy ships and aircraft. A second task force with the carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower also took part in the drills.

Full Story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070327...s_maneuvers;_ylt=AiV7pQhd1VQ7W.S3BY9iHnWs0NUE


If Iran had a squadron of working F-14s (even the H models) then the timid F-18s wouldn't scare them.
 
given what we know about bush and cheney, they might be hoping to provoke the iranians into doing something stupid. Like shooting at one of our planes.

Remember when during the weapons inspection in 2003, how Bush wanted to goad the iraqis into firing at US planes that were fixed up to look like UN planes?
 
given what we know about bush and cheney, they might be hoping to provoke the iranians into doing something stupid. Like shooting at one of our planes...
...or kidnapping British citizens
 
If Iran had a squadron of working F-14s (even the H models) then the timid F-18s wouldn't scare them.

Well, as you might have guessed Trog, I don't know much about weapons.

But I guess I know intimidation, provocation, and treading on dangerous waters when I see it.
 
...or kidnapping British citizens

Agreed, that was a stupid move.

Unless...they really were in Iranian waters when the incident occurred. That then, was just further provocation.

And that's something that we probably won't know for certain for years. That's usually the kind of little tidbit that comes out in military history books.

Either way, the Iranians were foolish, even if the brits were in their waters, to take the bait.
 
I am not so sure how our carriers would hold up against exocet missles, that one ship did not fare so well years ago...
 
Kidnapping british solider won't be viewed by the american public at large as a reason for us to go to war.

An iranian missle strike on a US destroyer would.
True, but it gives the admin the reason to point and say "SEE! SEE! They're baaaaad guys!"
 
There is little doubt in my mind that the British government should cease all Iranian assets in the UK, and use the RN to capture any Iranian vessels it can.

We will then hold the Iranians ransom until they realise that they cannot get away with kidnapping our sailors. If we use simple diplomacy, the Iranians will see kidnapping as a viable option.

Why the marines/sailors didn't fight their way out of the situation is beyond me. They were lightly armed but had a battleship, and aircraft in support.

This doesn't mean that I think we should invade Iran....
 
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