WAS communism really so bad?

Wilhelm Zenz said:
Because a lot of Russians really miss it
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I cannot put a lot of weight on what an obscure English woman who claims to speak for Russians, says about what Russians think. Although, I believe there are some decent insights there.

There are many Americans - particularly conservatives - who pine for the Confederacy, who are apologists for the Confederate cause - so Russia is not the only nation to look back and romanticize what can be considered by historical standards to be an era that perpetrated unprecedented crimes against humanity.

My impression from talking to Russians is that many of them object to the rampant consumerism and unrestrained capitalism that was thrust upon them. Russia, in general, has always considered the west to be morally decadent - and unrestrained capitalism to be a moral affront to human dignity. That is not to say that they admire the crimes of Josef Stalin, but the long history of the Soviet Union was complex and nuanced, as you would expect in any continent-sized nation of 300 million people. From their point of view, not everything about the USSR was terrible.

I think this video talks a lot about nostalgia for the prestige, respect, and pride in the accomplishments of the Soviet Union. But at its most basic level, people probably has a sense that a certain amount of virtue, morality, and spiritual values have been lost to the dustbin of history --- while oligarchs, prostitutes, moral decline, and unrestrained greed have been imported from the decadent west. In some sense, Russia always considered themselves as a people spiritually and morally superior to the West, and I think there is a sense that is slipping away.

It is really not that different from what the MAGA losers in this country believe. That there is some lost golden era that has slipped away from us, and that we need to return to. So this is obviously all related to human nature as much as it is to Russians.
 
For me the takeaway was that those who lived it don't want it


those that only saw it through the lens of OLD soviet movies and theater are falling prey to the propaganda police of those days in the past


communism eats its self and morphs into fascism in no time


socialism is the best form of government ON PAPER


try to practice a pure socialist nation and watch it eat its self within a generation



THAT MY FRIENDS IS WHY OUR FOUNDERS DESIGNED US A HYBRID GOVERNMENT



A Democracy, a Republic with socialist programs to protect what capitalism is uncapable of delivering to a nation of humans



a republic doesn't have to allow you to pick who represents you


A Democratic Republic makes sure the PEOPLE get to pick WHO represents them in a Representative run nation


capitalism is a great engine and can make sure peoples own efforts can reward their ingenuity and creative ideas



without it there can not be true freedom


that engine is not designed to steer us



the people are


that is what the founders created


the people to have the ability to control and modify that engine whenever needed

to have it meet their current needs

Regulations



and a way to be decent humans who care about their families and neighbors


capitalism can not provide that


capitalism as no moral code


UNLESS YOU FORCE IT TO


socialistic programs


Like the post office



remember we started with free LAND


as long as you worked it for your own survival


that is what most people did


start a farm on that free land until you could completely feed your family without having to chop someone elses wood for goods or money to buy would you couldn't make



at some point that great resource of government land was in much shorter supply and the workable land was getting rare


and people were more willing to do a business such as blacksmithing for others.


more and more towns developed.


and more and more people started a business rather than working a farm 24/7.


they either never pioneered a land grant or sold that land if they had


how about NOW?

what opportunity for the government to GIVE people something to get their lives started do we have now?



public education


child care


food subsidies


welfare for those who cant work for VARIOUS reasons



so when you claim the government shouldn't give people something for free


remember the founders did just that

free land
 
Bernie Sanders visited there shortly before it collapsed and thought it was awesome!

He was really proud of how they valued culture. Of course it is state sanctioned culture - which apparently socialists have no problem with

Socialists need a powerful government after all.
 
Wilhelm Zenz said:
WAS communism really so bad?
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Hmmmmm, gee, I don't know. Let's look at Communism's record:

20 million deaths in the Soviet Union

65 million deaths in the People’s Republic of China

1 million in Vietnam

2 million in North Korea

2 million in Cambodia (one fourth of the population)

1 million in Eastern Europe

150,000 in Latin America

1.7 million in Africa

1.5 million in Afghanistan

Gosh, Communism is great if you are a mentally deficient moron on steroids who has the intelligence of a gnat.

giphy.gif
 
evince said:
For me the takeaway was that those who lived it don't want it

those that only saw it through the lens of OLD soviet movies and theater are falling prey to the propaganda police of those days in the past

communism eats its self and morphs into fascism in no time

socialism is the best form of government ON PAPER

try to practice a pure socialist nation and watch it eat its self within a generation

THAT MY FRIENDS IS WHY OUR FOUNDERS DESIGNED US A HYBRID GOVERNMENT

A Democracy, a Republic with socialist programs to protect what capitalism is uncapable of delivering to a nation of humans

a republic doesn't have to allow you to pick who represents you

A Democratic Republic makes sure the PEOPLE get to pick WHO represents them in a Representative run nation

capitalism is a great engine and can make sure peoples own efforts can reward their ingenuity and creative ideas

without it there can not be true freedom
that engine is not designed to steer us

the people are

that is what the founders created

the people to have the ability to control and modify that engine whenever needed

to have it meet their current needs

Regulations

and a way to be decent humans who care about their families and neighbors

capitalism can not provide that

capitalism as no moral code

UNLESS YOU FORCE IT TO

socialistic programs

Like the post office

remember we started with free LAND

as long as you worked it for your own survival

that is what most people did

start a farm on that free land until you could completely feed your family without having to chop someone elses wood for goods or money to buy would you couldn't make

at some point that great resource of government land was in much shorter supply and the workable land was getting rare

and people were more willing to do a business such as blacksmithing for others.

more and more towns developed.

and more and more people started a business rather than working a farm 24/7.

they either never pioneered a land grant or sold that land if they had

how about NOW?

what opportunity for the government to GIVE people something to get their lives started do we have now?

public education

child care

food subsidies

welfare for those who cant work for VARIOUS reasons

so when you claim the government shouldn't give people something for free

remember the founders did just that

free land
Click to expand...

“It's true that private enterprise is extremely flexible, But its only good within very narrow limits. If private enterprise isn't held in an iron grip it gives birth to people who are no better than beasts, those stock-exchange people with greedy appetites beyond restraint.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Cancer Ward

"Untouched by the breath of God, unrestricted by human conscience, both capitalism and socialism are repulsive."
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
 
Cypress said:
There are many Americans - particularly conservatives - who pine for the Confederacy, who are apologists for the Confederate cause -
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LIE and LAME. But I would get why a Marxist moron like you would defend communism while you impugn fellow Americans.

Get back to your padded cell you repugnant, brainless twat. :laugh:

giphy.gif
 
Cypress said:
“It's true that private enterprise is extremely flexible, But its only good within very narrow limits. If private enterprise isn't held in an iron grip it gives birth to people who are no better than beasts, those stock-exchange people with greedy appetites beyond restraint.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Cancer Ward

"Untouched by the breath of God, unrestricted by human conscience, both capitalism and socialism are repulsive."
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
of course trade and hard work are good. but this modern thing we have has forgotten the hard earned victories of the labor movement, and trust busting eras.

im sorry neocons, wanting to be free of mandatory 16 hrs days, and making a living wage are valid goals, and are the goals of vast swaths of humanity.

and libby con hillary fascists, sorry too break this to you, but merely switching things around so victims are all white men doesn't fix a corrupt crony fiat capital system.
 
Wilhelm Zenz said:
Because a lot of Russians really miss it
Click to expand...

The problem is when the USSR collapsed there was no transition from communism to democracy. All of a sudden people were expected to think for themselves instead of being told what to think, where to work etc. People resist change and this is no different. It will take at least a couple of generations before the mind set changes.
 
That's their story...countered by a WHOLE LOTTA RUSSIANS who risked life and limb to get the hell out of the old Soviet bloc nations. And "Red China" was /is no picnic by any means.

The forms of communism that I've seen in my lifetime just don't work, because if you forcibly prevent your citizenry from leaving or just travel to other countries, and control what they read and can't read, that's not working for the benefit of the people...it's just enforcing the mindset of a select few.
 
Taichiliberal said:
That's their story...countered by a WHOLE LOTTA RUSSIANS who risked life and limb to get the hell out of the old Soviet bloc nations. And "Red China" was /is no picnic by any means.

The forms of communism that I've seen in my lifetime just don't work, because if you forcibly prevent your citizenry from leaving or just travel to other countries, and control what they read and can't read, that's not working for the benefit of the people...it's just enforcing the mindset of a select few.
Click to expand...

we are recreating totalitarianism right now, right here. worshipping "job creators" is literally a slave religion.
 
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