We Need A 'Waste Stream Tax.'

PoliTalker

Diversity Makes Greatness
The wonderful capitalist corporations who bring us all the amazing products we consume are motivated by competition of the free market to produce disposable products.

"Planned obsolescence tends to work best when a producer has at least an oligopoly.[4] Before introducing a planned obsolescence, the producer has to know that the customer is at least somewhat likely to buy a replacement from them (see brand loyalty). In these cases of planned obsolescence, there is an information asymmetry between the producer, who knows how long the product was designed to last, and the customer, who does not. When a market becomes more competitive, product lifespans tend to increase.[5][6] For example, when Japanese vehicles with longer lifespans entered the American market in the 1960s and 1970s, American carmakers were forced to respond by building more durable products."

Wiki

Cars are just an example. And most of them are actually recycled.

What about all those products that end up in a landfill?

Just how long do we expect that we can do this?

We extract raw materials from the Earth. We turn them into products. We use them for a while (Sometimes a very short duration and most popular is single use.) Then we pay for garbage service to cart the stuff off to the landfill, and to bury it.

How many centuries is that supposed to be sustainable?

Are we being greedy by thinking we should have a right to do this even though we know that people a few hundred years from now cannot possibly continue as we have done?

Why don't we make higher quality products that last much longer?

We have durable goods. They are supposed to last a few years. That's pretty amazing in this world. Most of the products out there don't last very long at all. They are not supposed to. They are junk. Most of what we build and consume is junk. We only rent for a little while on it's way to it's eventual destination for all time, the land fill.

Obviously, capitalism doesn't care about this. Not in the least. It is of no concern at all. It doesn't cost manufacturers anything if they impact our world in this way by building and selling junk. Capitalism doesn't see this as a problem.

Society, on the other hand, DOES have very good reasons to see this as a problem. It's not sustainable, and we are using up raw resources with no idea of what we will do when things start running out.

We need to get more advanced in how we manage resources. But capitalism isn't pushing technology to do that. After all, capitalism has no reason to do that. Society has a reason. That's why society needs to do something. What can society do to manage the way capitalism works for it? Society can direct it's government to regulate capitalism to make capitalism do what society wants and needs.

If we had a tax on manufacturing that hit the producers of land-fill materials with the costs of disposing of what they produce, they would be coaxed to produce higher quality products which would last longer. The longer the life of the products, the lower the tax. Single-use manufacturers would pay the most. Ideally that tax would gradually progress higher and higher over time until it simply became unprofitable to produce single-use products. That would be the long-term goal. And all those people working in that segment would know it and have plenty of time to prepare and shift into more sustainable work.

We need a Waste Stream Tax on manufacturers.

Which, of course, they would respond to by, not only making longer lasting products, but charging more for them. We would have to pay higher prices for things. But that would still work for us, because we would not have to replace things so often. In the long run it would really save us all money and save the environment. We wouldn't have to use as much energy transporting things around, such as the delivery of the product to home or store, or the trip to the store to get it, or the hauling of the waste stream to the landfill, and the running of bulldozers at the landfill to bury it.

Product producers are sort of passing off their responsibility to the environment and the future, and we are paying for it by paying for waste disposal and more transportation than needed. We, the masses, are picking up the slack for they, the owners of great capital and big corporations. Electronic products are among some of the worst. It is absurd to get a new cell phone every year just to have the latest and the greatest. You can't have that. That's like trying to own a new car. You can buy a new car, but you can't own one. As soon as you drive it off the lot, it is a used car. And as soon as you get your new phone, it is an old phone. It is a fool's game chasing the marketer's lure. Nobody needs a new phone every year. Maybe there should be a tax on buying phones too often!

Sometimes it is refreshing to step back and take a look at the big picture.

We have to balance freedom with human sustainability. Neither is unlimited.
 
Capitalism is a great engine of ingenuity and creativity.

But we don't just turn powerful engines loose to run wild and blow up. We harness them, guide them, govern them to do what we want.

Capitalism is the same way.
 
PoliTalker, you just made a strong argument for revolt. Nothing is going to change until enough people are willing to take to the street and fight for change. It will happen soon. Worker all over the world are refusing to return to work.
 
The wonderful capitalist corporations who bring us all the amazing products we consume are motivated by competition of the free market to produce disposable products.

"Planned obsolescence tends to work best when a producer has at least an oligopoly.[4] Before introducing a planned obsolescence, the producer has to know that the customer is at least somewhat likely to buy a replacement from them (see brand loyalty). In these cases of planned obsolescence, there is an information asymmetry between the producer, who knows how long the product was designed to last, and the customer, who does not. When a market becomes more competitive, product lifespans tend to increase.[5][6] For example, when Japanese vehicles with longer lifespans entered the American market in the 1960s and 1970s, American carmakers were forced to respond by building more durable products."

Wiki

Cars are just an example. And most of them are actually recycled.

What about all those products that end up in a landfill?

Just how long do we expect that we can do this?

We extract raw materials from the Earth. We turn them into products. We use them for a while (Sometimes a very short duration and most popular is single use.) Then we pay for garbage service to cart the stuff off to the landfill, and to bury it.

How many centuries is that supposed to be sustainable?

Are we being greedy by thinking we should have a right to do this even though we know that people a few hundred years from now cannot possibly continue as we have done?

Why don't we make higher quality products that last much longer?

We have durable goods. They are supposed to last a few years. That's pretty amazing in this world. Most of the products out there don't last very long at all. They are not supposed to. They are junk. Most of what we build and consume is junk. We only rent for a little while on it's way to it's eventual destination for all time, the land fill.

Obviously, capitalism doesn't care about this. Not in the least. It is of no concern at all. It doesn't cost manufacturers anything if they impact our world in this way by building and selling junk. Capitalism doesn't see this as a problem.

Society, on the other hand, DOES have very good reasons to see this as a problem. It's not sustainable, and we are using up raw resources with no idea of what we will do when things start running out.

We need to get more advanced in how we manage resources. But capitalism isn't pushing technology to do that. After all, capitalism has no reason to do that. Society has a reason. That's why society needs to do something. What can society do to manage the way capitalism works for it? Society can direct it's government to regulate capitalism to make capitalism do what society wants and needs.

If we had a tax on manufacturing that hit the producers of land-fill materials with the costs of disposing of what they produce, they would be coaxed to produce higher quality products which would last longer. The longer the life of the products, the lower the tax. Single-use manufacturers would pay the most. Ideally that tax would gradually progress higher and higher over time until it simply became unprofitable to produce single-use products. That would be the long-term goal. And all those people working in that segment would know it and have plenty of time to prepare and shift into more sustainable work.

We need a Waste Stream Tax on manufacturers.

Which, of course, they would respond to by, not only making longer lasting products, but charging more for them. We would have to pay higher prices for things. But that would still work for us, because we would not have to replace things so often. In the long run it would really save us all money and save the environment. We wouldn't have to use as much energy transporting things around, such as the delivery of the product to home or store, or the trip to the store to get it, or the hauling of the waste stream to the landfill, and the running of bulldozers at the landfill to bury it.

Product producers are sort of passing off their responsibility to the environment and the future, and we are paying for it by paying for waste disposal and more transportation than needed. We, the masses, are picking up the slack for they, the owners of great capital and big corporations. Electronic products are among some of the worst. It is absurd to get a new cell phone every year just to have the latest and the greatest. You can't have that. That's like trying to own a new car. You can buy a new car, but you can't own one. As soon as you drive it off the lot, it is a used car. And as soon as you get your new phone, it is an old phone. It is a fool's game chasing the marketer's lure. Nobody needs a new phone every year. Maybe there should be a tax on buying phones too often!

Sometimes it is refreshing to step back and take a look at the big picture.

We have to balance freedom with human sustainability. Neither is unlimited.


You are correct but your comments are true of any market--capitalist or not. Socialist nations have some of the worst pollution and need to sell products just as much.

Also, I think you are blaming capitalism for consumer (human) traits. We can control any corporation by refusing to buy their products. Look at the actions of Delta, MLB, and others that reacted to Georgia's voting laws.
 
The wonderful capitalist corporations who bring us all the amazing products we consume are motivated by competition of the free market to produce disposable products.

"Planned obsolescence tends to work best when a producer has at least an oligopoly.[4] Before introducing a planned obsolescence, the producer has to know that the customer is at least somewhat likely to buy a replacement from them (see brand loyalty). In these cases of planned obsolescence, there is an information asymmetry between the producer, who knows how long the product was designed to last, and the customer, who does not. When a market becomes more competitive, product lifespans tend to increase.[5][6] For example, when Japanese vehicles with longer lifespans entered the American market in the 1960s and 1970s, American carmakers were forced to respond by building more durable products."

Wiki

Cars are just an example. And most of them are actually recycled.

What about all those products that end up in a landfill?

Just how long do we expect that we can do this?

We extract raw materials from the Earth. We turn them into products. We use them for a while (Sometimes a very short duration and most popular is single use.) Then we pay for garbage service to cart the stuff off to the landfill, and to bury it.

How many centuries is that supposed to be sustainable?

Are we being greedy by thinking we should have a right to do this even though we know that people a few hundred years from now cannot possibly continue as we have done?

Why don't we make higher quality products that last much longer?

We have durable goods. They are supposed to last a few years. That's pretty amazing in this world. Most of the products out there don't last very long at all. They are not supposed to. They are junk. Most of what we build and consume is junk. We only rent for a little while on it's way to it's eventual destination for all time, the land fill.

Obviously, capitalism doesn't care about this. Not in the least. It is of no concern at all. It doesn't cost manufacturers anything if they impact our world in this way by building and selling junk. Capitalism doesn't see this as a problem.

Society, on the other hand, DOES have very good reasons to see this as a problem. It's not sustainable, and we are using up raw resources with no idea of what we will do when things start running out.

We need to get more advanced in how we manage resources. But capitalism isn't pushing technology to do that. After all, capitalism has no reason to do that. Society has a reason. That's why society needs to do something. What can society do to manage the way capitalism works for it? Society can direct it's government to regulate capitalism to make capitalism do what society wants and needs.

If we had a tax on manufacturing that hit the producers of land-fill materials with the costs of disposing of what they produce, they would be coaxed to produce higher quality products which would last longer. The longer the life of the products, the lower the tax. Single-use manufacturers would pay the most. Ideally that tax would gradually progress higher and higher over time until it simply became unprofitable to produce single-use products. That would be the long-term goal. And all those people working in that segment would know it and have plenty of time to prepare and shift into more sustainable work.

We need a Waste Stream Tax on manufacturers.

Which, of course, they would respond to by, not only making longer lasting products, but charging more for them. We would have to pay higher prices for things. But that would still work for us, because we would not have to replace things so often. In the long run it would really save us all money and save the environment. We wouldn't have to use as much energy transporting things around, such as the delivery of the product to home or store, or the trip to the store to get it, or the hauling of the waste stream to the landfill, and the running of bulldozers at the landfill to bury it.

Product producers are sort of passing off their responsibility to the environment and the future, and we are paying for it by paying for waste disposal and more transportation than needed. We, the masses, are picking up the slack for they, the owners of great capital and big corporations. Electronic products are among some of the worst. It is absurd to get a new cell phone every year just to have the latest and the greatest. You can't have that. That's like trying to own a new car. You can buy a new car, but you can't own one. As soon as you drive it off the lot, it is a used car. And as soon as you get your new phone, it is an old phone. It is a fool's game chasing the marketer's lure. Nobody needs a new phone every year. Maybe there should be a tax on buying phones too often!

Sometimes it is refreshing to step back and take a look at the big picture.

We have to balance freedom with human sustainability. Neither is unlimited.

Yes there should be a tax on consumers who prefer cheap one use items as you describe them. Why not? If they don't buy then manufacturing will change. If you really want to make a difference make the more expensive items tax free. As an example, if you by a refrigerator that will last 25 years it may be very expensive but make it tax free. Give people a reason to buy something more expensive.
 
Hello Flash,

You are correct but your comments are true of any market--capitalist or not. Socialist nations have some of the worst pollution and need to sell products just as much.

Also, I think you are blaming capitalism for consumer (human) traits. We can control any corporation by refusing to buy their products. Look at the actions of Delta, MLB, and others that reacted to Georgia's voting laws.

Just because there is pollution in socialist nations does not mean we can't successfully regulate our capitalism to make it work for us.

Remember: If this theory is correct, it will result not only in a better treatment of the environment, a win-win-win for humans, the planet and the future, it will also result in savings for every consumer because they will be spending less on products in the long term, by replacing them less often and spending less on the waste stream.
 
Hello Flash,



Just because there is pollution in socialist nations does not mean we can't successfully regulate our capitalism to make it work for us.

Remember: If this theory is correct, it will result not only in a better treatment of the environment, a win-win-win for humans, the planet and the future, it will also result in savings for every consumer because they will be spending less on products in the long term, by replacing them less often and spending less on the waste stream.
From the Internet
Sweden is known for strikingly reducing the trash sent to its landfills. Less than 1 percent of household waste in this Scandinavian country finds it way to landfills, according to Avfall Sverige, the Swedish Waste Management and Recycling association.

Sweden is now importing trash to be recycled.
 
Look! A ready made landfill!

superpit-opener.jpg


We can put this stuff in it...

28085540-8294057-image-a-4_1588793478933.jpg


and these too!

000-2.jpg
 
Hello goat,

From the Internet
Sweden is known for strikingly reducing the trash sent to its landfills. Less than 1 percent of household waste in this Scandinavian country finds it way to landfills, according to Avfall Sverige, the Swedish Waste Management and Recycling association.

Sweden is now importing trash to be recycled.

Awesome. Did not know. Thanks for sharing that.
 
Hello T. A. Gardner,

Look! A ready made landfill!


We can put this stuff in it...

and these too!

SMH

Very funny.

How far did you have to 'dig' to find that information?

What was that shot of the twisted solar panels? Tornado damage?

My point being that technology doesn't come out perfect on the very first try. There are bound to be mistakes made, lessons learned.

Nobody in 1900 decided to invent a Tesla on the first try. Lots of things had to get built and tested for life before we could learn how to build a Tesla. And likewise, the Wright brothers didn't invent a 767 on the first attempt. Product development is a long process. There will be waste along the way. It can't be eliminated, but we can certainly reduce the absurd amounts of it. And that is what we need to do.

I never suggested we have no landfills.

But we certainly can reduce the amount of stuff going into them. And we should.
 
Why don't we make higher quality products that last much longer?

We have durable goods. They are supposed to last a few years. That's pretty amazing in this world. Most of the products out there don't last very long at all. They are not supposed to. They are junk. Most of what we build and consume is junk. We only rent for a little while on it's way to it's eventual destination for all time, the land fill.

Obviously, capitalism doesn't care about this. Not in the least. It is of no concern at all. It doesn't cost manufacturers anything if they impact our world in this way by building and selling junk. Capitalism doesn't see this as a problem.
The consumers demanded cheaper goods that they didn't have to take care of or make repairs on themselves. So manufacturers complied.
 
Hello T. A. Gardner,



SMH

Very funny.

How far did you have to 'dig' to find that information?

What was that shot of the twisted solar panels? Tornado damage?

My point being that technology doesn't come out perfect on the very first try. There are bound to be mistakes made, lessons learned.

Nobody in 1900 decided to invent a Tesla on the first try. Lots of things had to get built and tested for life before we could learn how to build a Tesla. And likewise, the Wright brothers didn't invent a 767 on the first attempt. Product development is a long process. There will be waste along the way. It can't be eliminated, but we can certainly reduce the absurd amounts of it. And that is what we need to do.

I never suggested we have no landfills.

But we certainly can reduce the amount of stuff going into them. And we should.

I like the pun.

Anyway... Solar will never work. You can't get around the watt-density of sunlight or the fact that the sun isn't going to shine on some particular spot on the planet 24 hours a day.
 
Hello T. A. Gardner,

I like the pun.

Anyway... Solar will never work. You can't get around the watt-density of sunlight or the fact that the sun isn't going to shine on some particular spot on the planet 24 hours a day.

Solar is already working quite well. And it's getting cheaper than natural gas. As battery technology improves, more and more limitations are being overcome, such as storing energy. I bet there weren't any Teslas panic buying gas during that little mini crisis...

A Waste Stream Tax will actually save us all money.
 
It is a crying shame how we as a society are performing on recycling.

We need incredibly stiff penalties for throwing the wrong stuff in the recycle bin.

That renders the whole effort useless.

The best case would be a quality recycling effort. Pre-sorted good material, ready to be reused. That's the goal.

Here's the paper. There's the clear glass, the brown, there's all the different types of plastic, the metals, etc. All ready to reuse in manufacturing.

Because we have such irresponsibility and misunderstanding, we just assume that people are going to mess up, and that everything will have to be sorted.

If you ever saw a video of people sorting the recycling stream it would become crystal clear what needs to be done.

Don't even bother putting small stuff in there. Just remove all the caps and thrown them away. Unless they are the same color and material as the container. Rinse and dry everything.

What happens at the sorting house is a huge conveyor runs the stream past people standing by the side of it. Each person is looking for like items which they deftly reach over and pluck out of the stream to be gathered in to quality bins of usable material. The stream is going by quickly. They look for the largest items that are the easiest to pluck.

What doesn't get plucked out simply goes into the landfill.

So there is no point in putting small stuff in there.

And glass is no good if it has metal or plastic caps on it. The glass needs to be just glass, ideally. That's gonna be melted down. Anything else in there like paper and plastic labels, or bottlecaps is going to become slag that needs to be skimmed out of the molten glass and thrown away.

They don't want plastic bags or styrofoam.

Where there are individual bins for each house, there is no need to put that out every week. Wait until the bin is full. There is no point in making the truck stop, empty it, and then have to use energy to get going again unless the bin is full. Ideally, all the stuff you put in the bin is rinsed and dried. It's not going to stink. Animals are not going to get into it.

Making the trucks stop and get going too often only raises the bill for everyone and hurts the environment by wasting energy.

Learn how to compost. Use that for your gardening. Kitchen scraps can be recycled and grow good things to eat. Then you don't need a garbage disposal, or the water or the power to run that. And the nutrients come right back to you, reducing greenhouse gases in so many ways.

Don't throw anything away that might have another use someday. Let's preserve the planet for future humans. Some of them might even be our own grandchildren and theirs as well.
 
It is a crying shame how we as a society are performing on recycling.

We need incredibly stiff penalties for throwing the wrong stuff in the recycle bin.

That renders the whole effort useless.

The best case would be a quality recycling effort. Pre-sorted good material, ready to be reused. That's the goal.

Here's the paper. There's the clear glass, the brown, there's all the different types of plastic, the metals, etc. All ready to reuse in manufacturing.

Because we have such irresponsibility and misunderstanding, we just assume that people are going to mess up, and that everything will have to be sorted.

If you ever saw a video of people sorting the recycling stream it would become crystal clear what needs to be done.

Don't even bother putting small stuff in there. Just remove all the caps and thrown them away. Unless they are the same color and material as the container. Rinse and dry everything.

What happens at the sorting house is a huge conveyor runs the stream past people standing by the side of it. Each person is looking for like items which they deftly reach over and pluck out of the stream to be gathered in to quality bins of usable material. The stream is going by quickly. They look for the largest items that are the easiest to pluck.

What doesn't get plucked out simply goes into the landfill.

So there is no point in putting small stuff in there.

And glass is no good if it has metal or plastic caps on it. The glass needs to be just glass, ideally. That's gonna be melted down. Anything else in there like paper and plastic labels, or bottlecaps is going to become slag that needs to be skimmed out of the molten glass and thrown away.

They don't want plastic bags or styrofoam.

Where there are individual bins for each house, there is no need to put that out every week. Wait until the bin is full. There is no point in making the truck stop, empty it, and then have to use energy to get going again unless the bin is full. Ideally, all the stuff you put in the bin is rinsed and dried. It's not going to stink. Animals are not going to get into it.

Making the trucks stop and get going too often only raises the bill for everyone and hurts the environment by wasting energy.

Learn how to compost. Use that for your gardening. Kitchen scraps can be recycled and grow good things to eat. Then you don't need a garbage disposal, or the water or the power to run that. And the nutrients come right back to you, reducing greenhouse gases in so many ways.

Don't throw anything away that might have another use someday. Let's preserve the planet for future humans. Some of them might even be our own grandchildren and theirs as well.

You make such sense in some places but you sound completely nuts in others. Who is going to assess your recycling habits so people who do t do it right geta "stuff penalty"? Do you think about this stuff before you post?
 
Proper recycling saves us all money.

Less energy is being consumed to transport and sort single-stream bins when we learn and follow the best principles for recycling habits.

Making America an efficient user of natural resources make America a greater country.

Recycling can be creative and fun. Taking an old product and repurposing it into something new and arty or useful in another way is a very rewarding way to recycle. Many craft shows feature artists who present all sorts of "Upcycled" items.

5 Ways to Improve Your Recycling Habits
 
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