APP - what is wrong with the government option?

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just talked with a friend who works in the ins. ind. for a local private ins. firm that deals with EE benefits....they do not represent any ins. co....rather, they work for people in the community to get better rates, eg., the negotiators for you.....they get you ins rates, and due to volume, the ins cos. give them a cut.....and they work for cos. as low 2 people

i mentioned the government option and why is this better than simply expanding medicare.....that was the conversation, nothing more.

thoughts:

what about all those small businesses that perform such jobs? does that go away with the gov. option?

the gov. option is actually not a bad idea, as to simply expand medicare is a bureaucratic nightmare....much simpler to create the gov. option and bring the other gov. ins. in line.....

after my talk....i am seriously not seeing much reason to not get behind obama's plan. medicare sucks etc.....what if this gov. option actually worked?
 
But it is a liberal plan it can't be any good.

I think that sentiment is the largest objection.
Aside from those being used by the insurance industry.
 
meme said:
I know it is yurt, but you know how I feel about this administration and the plan they have for the take over of health care system..it is not about our health care, it is about them gaining power in Government and control over our live to predict how we live, eat and sleep..

sorry that doesn't answer your question, but there have been other ways suggested to try and help people not to go broke from medical bills, I know you know that..
Click to expand...

to be honest, i agree with the power grab....that said....so did bush, so did clinton and so forth....

i really don't care about politics with healthcare. i really don't. i have suggested other ways that might work....those ideas are not on the floor and will never be considered except in cyber boards....so i want to know the real answer.....because this bill will come.....please see this thread and i will link this to that thread:

APP - what is wrong with the government option? - Just Plain Politics!
 
Yurt said:
just talked with a friend who works in the ins. ind. for a local private ins. firm that deals with EE benefits....they do not represent any ins. co....rather, they work for people in the community to get better rates, eg., the negotiators for you.....they get you ins rates, and due to volume, the ins cos. give them a cut.....and they work for cos. as low 2 people

i mentioned the government option and why is this better than simply expanding medicare.....that was the conversation, nothing more.

thoughts:

what about all those small businesses that perform such jobs? does that go away with the gov. option?

the gov. option is actually not a bad idea, as to simply expand medicare is a bureaucratic nightmare....much simpler to create the gov. option and bring the other gov. ins. in line.....

after my talk....i am seriously not seeing much reason to not get behind obama's plan. medicare sucks etc.....what if this gov. option actually worked?
Click to expand...

The Obama administration would force the Insurance Co's out. That is their plan. Besides, Obama is backpedaling now on the government option, so time will tell. I will send you some information on this sometime tomorrow.
 
The problem with the public option is that it cuts into insurance company profits. That's it. End of story.

Personally, I have no problem with cutting into insurance company profits so the public option isn't an issue for me. You should ask people why they have a problem with cutting into insurance company profits.
 
TurdFerguson said:
The problem with the public option is that it cuts into insurance company profits. That's it. End of story.

Personally, I have no problem with cutting into insurance company profits so the public option isn't an issue for me. You should ask people why they have a problem with cutting into insurance company profits.
Click to expand...

i'm not so sure it will....by mandating insurance, that goes hand in hand with the gov. option, ins. companies will prosper.....see auto insurance
 
TuTu Monroe said:
The Obama administration would force the Insurance Co's out. That is their plan. Besides, Obama is backpedaling now on the government option, so time will tell. I will send you some information on this sometime tomorrow.
Click to expand...

So what are you saying? You just said that Obama simultaneously wants to destroy private industry health care through the public option and also doesn't give enough of a shit to pursue the public option until it actually gets defeated.

You can't have it both ways.
 
Yurt said:
i'm not so sure it will....by mandating insurance, that goes hand in hand with the gov. option, ins. companies will prosper.....see auto insurance
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Yeah, that's true. The mandate was HUGELY supported by industry types. It means money in the pocket for private insurers. It brings them 45 million more subscribers, minus whoever goes onto the government plan. Oh wait! There will be no government plan, so it winds up with 45 million more people being hand-delivered to private industry.

Mandating insurance then providing a way for people to pay for it through subsidies if they can't afford it and increasing competition by providing a not super comprehensive luxury plan but an adequate three tier plan that you pay with your own premium dollars with lower overhead, no huge executive pay, no stock holders to answer too, and no advertising budget seems like a no-fucking-brianer.

The biggest objection to this is that it hurts private industry profits. That's ALL. The private industry may have trouble keeping up with the costs, but if they can provide better value for their premiums then they do just fine. If they can't, then we all learn that the government is in fact way better suited to provide this kind of service from a moral standpoint as well as an economic one.

Challenge idiots like Tutu or Meme on anything they say about healthcare. They've got no clue why they oppose it. They still call it a "government takeover of healthcare" when all it happens to be is a government administered insurance option (insurance is not the same as health care providing, retards).

It makes me so sick to my stomach that the super loud retards of this country are going to win this battle over the public option with zero rationale and 100 percent empty rhetoric and misinformation.
 
Yurt said:
i'm not so sure it will....by mandating insurance, that goes hand in hand with the gov. option, ins. companies will prosper.....see auto insurance
Click to expand...


You're talking about two different things. The insurance industry hates the public option because it will cut into their profits. The insurance industry loves the individual mandate because it gives them shitloads of new customers that are required to purchase their products.

And auto insurance isn't a relevant comparator with respect to teh public option in the health care bill. I don't know of any states that have a public option for auto insurance.
 
TurdFerguson said:
The problem with the public option is that it cuts into insurance company profits. That's it. End of story.

Personally, I have no problem with cutting into insurance company profits so the public option isn't an issue for me. You should ask people why they have a problem with cutting into insurance company profits.
Click to expand...


wow, so stupid he doesn't realize mandated insurance is like handing insurance companies 47 million new customers. And the week before, they were evil-mongers!

Libtards for the win
 
TurdFerguson said:
You're talking about two different things. The insurance industry hates the public option because it will cut into their profits. The insurance industry loves the individual mandate because it gives them shitloads of new customers that are required to purchase their products.

And auto insurance isn't a relevant comparator with respect to teh public option in the health care bill. I don't know of any states that have a public option for auto insurance.
Click to expand...


because the public option is a stupid idea. But dumbass libtards won't stop until the IRS is handling their healthcare, retirement, and lord only knows what's next
 
Yurt said:
the gov. option is actually not a bad idea...

after my talk....i am seriously not seeing much reason to not get behind obama's plan. medicare sucks etc.....what if this gov. option actually worked?
Click to expand...

Put yourself in the shoes of a rightwinger.

Liberal government socialist insurance will pay for women’s contraception, morning-after pills, cervical cancer vaccines, and reproductive health coverage.

Hey man, Wingnuts had a hard enough time getting their teenage daughters to wear chastity belts, without having socialist devilry tempting those gals into premarital sex and promiscuity.


Social Conservatives Battle Against Cervical Cancer Vaccinations

Wash Post

A new vaccine that protects against cervical cancer has set up a clash between health advocates who want to use the shots aggressively to prevent thousands of malignancies and social conservatives who say immunizing teenagers could encourage sexual activity

'This is going to sabotage our abstinence message,' " said Gene Rudd, associate executive director of the Christian Medical and Dental Associations.

"Some people have raised the issue of whether this vaccine may be sending an overall message to teenagers that, 'We expect you to be sexually active,' " said Reginald Finger,


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/30/AR2005103000747.html
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TurdFerguson said:
You're talking about two different things. The insurance industry hates the public option because it will cut into their profits. The insurance industry loves the individual mandate because it gives them shitloads of new customers that are required to purchase their products.

And auto insurance isn't a relevant comparator with respect to teh public option in the health care bill. I don't know of any states that have a public option for auto insurance.
Click to expand...

i did not mean to say they were identical...even if a public option is created, there will be people who will chose the private over a government option that otherwise would not now....it may not be a lot....but i think this plan will result in higher profits for insurance companies.....unless, the preexisting conditions hurt them....but i think if everyone has to have insurance, the preexisting conditions won't hurt the ins. companies that much

i'm reading some stuff on the public option given my tu tu....i'll respond later, thanks for the info
 
from tutu's link

http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/bg2267.cfm

while i appreciated the article, i didn't come away with a full answer. the medicare part is interesting....so i will post here for further discussion..in the hopes that some will address it with actual debate and discussion, not just derision


They should also be asked why Original Medi*care should to be expanded to cover most of the American population in order for it to improve quality or better control costs through improved methods of payment and administration. Is Medi*care, the largest health plan in America, and the plan that covers over three-fourths of all seniors, not large enough as is to achieve all those desirable reforms and innovations mentioned by Hacker and Davis? What potential reforms could be so difficult to achieve in a $400 billion program as to require doubling, tripling, or quadrupling the number of people it covers?
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the other main argument of the article is that this will lead to single payer system.....i recognize the argument put forth by ib1 and onceler i believe...that this could not lead to a single payer system as that would require a whole new bill.....i agree....and would feel more comfortable if this was made clear in the bill. often times legislation has little footnotes or little sentences that allow far more than one would think.....additionally, if this is truly a step and even if the step requires a new bill......if this bill is the building of the first step.............that is in fact troubling.
 
Yurt said:
from tutu's link

http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/bg2267.cfm

while i appreciated the article, i didn't come away with a full answer. the medicare part is interesting....so i will post here for further discussion..in the hopes that some will address it with actual debate and discussion, not just derision




the other main argument of the article is that this will lead to single payer system.....i recognize the argument put forth by ib1 and onceler i believe...that this could not lead to a single payer system as that would require a whole new bill.....i agree....and would feel more comfortable if this was made clear in the bill. often times legislation has little footnotes or little sentences that allow far more than one would think.....additionally, if this is truly a step and even if the step requires a new bill......if this bill is the building of the first step.............that is in fact troubling.
Click to expand...

Any kind of health care reform that increases coverage to something closer to 100 percent would and could be called the first step toward single player. That doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.

The mechanisms for running a single payer system are HUGELY different than the ones being built by the public option, so that's not really a rational line of succession either.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Any kind of health care reform that increases coverage to something closer to 100 percent would and could be called the first step toward single player. That doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.

The mechanisms for running a single payer system are HUGELY different than the ones being built by the public option, so that's not really a rational line of succession either.
Click to expand...

i'm not so sure....some of those who want to pass this bill are on record as saying the single payer is better and that this bill is the "step" to get there.....
 
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