What will it look like?

Yakuda

Yakuda

Verified User
This is a question for all the progressives on this site but as always anyone can contribute. Here is the question, what will the ideal society look like when it's free of racism, and the assorted isms and phobias. (I am not writing it that way to be disrespectful but for brevity). How will we know when all of these things have been eliminated? And what will it look like?
 
Yakuda said:
This is a question for all the progressives on this site but as always anyone can contribute. Here is the question, what will the ideal society look like when it's free of racism, and the assorted isms and phobias. (I am not writing it that way to be disrespectful but for brevity). How will we know when all of these things have been eliminated? And what will it look like?
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23 people have looked at this and not a single one can tell us what the progressive nirvana will look like. Fascinating.
 
Yakuda said:
This is a question for all the progressives on this site but as always anyone can contribute. Here is the question, what will the ideal society look like when it's free of racism, and the assorted isms and phobias. (I am not writing it that way to be disrespectful but for brevity). How will we know when all of these things have been eliminated? And what will it look like?
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We will know when Trumpcucks are gone.
 
Yakuda said:
This is a question for all the progressives on this site but as always anyone can contribute. Here is the question, what will the ideal society look like when it's free of racism, and the assorted isms and phobias. (I am not writing it that way to be disrespectful but for brevity). How will we know when all of these things have been eliminated? And what will it look like?
Click to expand...

Anything other than it looks today
 
Yakuda said:
This is a question for all the progressives on this site but as always anyone can contribute. Here is the question, what will the ideal society look like when it's free of racism, and the assorted isms and phobias. (I am not writing it that way to be disrespectful but for brevity). How will we know when all of these things have been eliminated? And what will it look like?
Click to expand...

First, I will take the bait. Please, call me stupid for that because it may be the best example to date. Be honest, regardless of what is said you are going to ignore their ideas and call them names. But I digress...

First, the ideals in our founding documents demand us to strive for what you are asking. A More Perfect Union where All Men (and dare I say women) are created equal.

Unfortunately, it is likely that those ideals are not 100% obtainable. As humans we are flawed. A country, "of the people, by the people..." is then (like all countries) will be flawed.

I don't think the goal is to create a utopia but continue to improve on those ideals. Your question suggests Conservatives don't have a similar goal. I find that disappointing and disturbing.

The hope i have is this country is better when i leave the when I arrived (birth /death). More importantly, that we also continue to have the goal to be better regarding equality. Once the goal of improvement is gone, it is game over. I say that regarding my career all the time. Once I am done wanting to get better, please force me to retire.

Personally, I don't believe the goal should be understanding. I don't understand all of it. However, I do my best to not judge and treat people the same. Your sexual orientation does not impact me so why would it change how I treat you.

Regarding racism. That simply comes from fear. As Yoda said, "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering". That is the basis of racism. Why would anyone fight for a statue of a traitor, racist, and loser?" Fear of reality causes some to defend the Confederacy.

So the ideals may not be achievable but that doesn't mean they aren't worth the effort.

Wouldn't you agree?

Sorry for the rambling. This is what drives me politically and personally.
 
Whythink said:
First, I will take the bait. Please, call me stupid for that because it may be the best example to date. Be honest, regardless of what is said you are going to ignore their ideas and call them names. But I digress...

First, the ideals in our founding documents demand us to strive for what you are asking. A More Perfect Union where All Men (and dare I say women) are created equal.

Unfortunately, it is likely that those ideals are not 100% obtainable. As humans we are flawed. A country, "of the people, by the people..." is then (like all countries) will be flawed.

I don't think the goal is to create a utopia but continue to improve on those ideals. Your question suggests Conservatives don't have a similar goal. I find that disappointing and disturbing.

The hope i have is this country is better when i leave the when I arrived (birth /death). More importantly, that we also continue to have the goal to be better regarding equality. Once the goal of improvement is gone, it is game over. I say that regarding my career all the time. Once I am done wanting to get better, please force me to retire.

Personally, I don't believe the goal should be understanding. I don't understand all of it. However, I do my best to not judge and treat people the same. Your sexual orientation does not impact me so why would it change how I treat you.

Regarding racism. That simply comes from fear. As Yoda said, "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering". That is the basis of racism. Why would anyone fight for a statue of a traitor, racist, and loser?" Fear of reality causes some to defend the Confederacy.

So the ideals may not be achievable but that doesn't mean they aren't worth the effort.

Wouldn't you agree?

Sorry for the rambling. This is what drives me politically and personally.
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Thank you for your thoughtful post. You are the very first and I appreciate it. BTW it's short sighted to assume I will dismiss the ideas and call names. This was a respectful post and I will reply in kind. When people start calling me a racist simply because I disagree with them they don't deserve my respect and won't get it. There are people who can attest to my willingness to debate but I won't respect those who use talking points.

As to your reply I agree all men are created equal. Yes that includes women. The problem I have is that it seems some people believe that because we are created equal we should end up in the same place.

I don't think in any way whatsoever that the question suggests conservatives don't have a similar goal. That seems intellectually lazy to me. It's an assumption and it's not helpful. Everyone has a goal even if you don't like it.

As to racism why would it matter to you that a statue of Robert e Lee stands some place? It would be a perfect opportunity to talk with someone who sees it and explain that part of our history. What I will say next I am certain will lead you to believe I am racist but your beliefs dont make things true. I have no problem with those statues. For good bad or indifferent those "traitor, racist loser" folks stood up for something they believed in. It was wrong but they stood up for their beliefs. You do exactly the same. Also the time of the civil war was a different time but your desire not to judge doesn't seem to extend so far does it? Applying 21st century thinking to 19th century life is unreasonable. Also I would ask you to consider that you are calling fellow Americans "traitors, racist and losers". That's not helpful at all to bringing people together.

Yes it is worth a fight but if you believe I am the enemy then nothing will change

As I said I appreciate your thoughtful post and I hope we can continue in this way.
 
Yakuda said:
Thank you for your thoughtful post. You are the very first and I appreciate it. BTW it's short sighted to assume I will dismiss the ideas and call names. This was a respectful post and I will reply in kind. When people start calling me a racist simply because I disagree with them they don't deserve my respect and won't get it. There are people who can attest to my willingness to debate but I won't respect those who use talking points.

As to your reply I agree all men are created equal. Yes that includes women. The problem I have is that it seems some people believe that because we are created equal we should end up in the same place.

I don't think in any way whatsoever that the question suggests conservatives don't have a similar goal. That seems intellectually lazy to me. It's an assumption and it's not helpful. Everyone has a goal even if you don't like it.

As to racism why would it matter to you that a statue of Robert e Lee stands some place? It would be a perfect opportunity to talk with someone who sees it and explain that part of our history. What I will say next I am certain will lead you to believe I am racist but your beliefs dont make things true. I have no problem with those statues. For good bad or indifferent those "traitor, racist loser" folks stood up for something they believed in. It was wrong but they stood up for their beliefs. You do exactly the same. Also the time of the civil war was a different time but your desire not to judge doesn't seem to extend so far does it? Applying 21st century thinking to 19th century life is unreasonable. Also I would ask you to consider that you are calling fellow Americans "traitors, racist and losers". That's not helpful at all to bringing people together.

Yes it is worth a fight but if you believe I am the enemy then nothing will change

As I said I appreciate your thoughtful post and I hope we can continue in this way.
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Thanks.

I will disagree on one point. Those who fought for the Confederacy were attempting to not be Americans. They chose to leave this country. They are the definition of traitors. Moreover, they did so to maintain slavery. Yes, they were racists. If not for Johnson, their ability to re-enter the US as full citizens may have been stopped. Prison would have been my choice. The forgiveness proved to be a failure rather quickly.

As a result, I don't see the Confederates as Americans. After all, that is what they wanted.

Finally, I understand the idea it is unfair to judge based on today's standards. However, that would mean teaching history without a "good" v "evil". I don't think that is responsible. Fyi, I don't judge a slave owning Jefferson the same as a Confederate. I do believe the answer became clear between 1776 and 1860. Those who continued to own slaves and fought to continue slavery were evil.

Finally, when can we begin to use today's standards to judge historical figures. 1940, 1970,1990? Can I judge segregationists based on today?

Side note, please remember your beliefs about not judging based on today the next time someone attaches slavery to the Democrats (or DemoKKKrats).

Thanks again. I don't view you as my enemy.
 
Whythink said:
Thanks.

I will disagree on one point. Those who fought for the Confederacy were attempting to not be Americans. They chose to leave this country. They are the definition of traitors. Moreover, they did so to maintain slavery. Yes, they were racists. If not for Johnson, their ability to re-enter the US as full citizens may have been stopped. Prison would have been my choice. The forgiveness proved to be a failure rather quickly.

As a result, I don't see the Confederates as Americans. After all, that is what they wanted.

Finally, I understand the idea it is unfair to judge based on today's standards. However, that would mean teaching history without a "good" v "evil". I don't think that is responsible. Fyi, I don't judge a slave owning Jefferson the same as a Confederate. I do believe the answer became clear between 1776 and 1860. Those who continued to own slaves and fought to continue slavery were evil.

Finally, when can we begin to use today's standards to judge historical figures. 1940, 1970,1990? Can I judge segregationists based on today?

Side note, please remember your beliefs about not judging based on today the next time someone attaches slavery to the Democrats (or DemoKKKrats).

Thanks again. I don't view you as my enemy.
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Their choice to secede did not occur in a vacuum. How we view people and what they actually are are not the same thing.

I disagree with your take on the good vs evil if we don't judge. It's been my experience that people usually seem much more comfortable judging others but really seem to haye it when others judge them. I suspect there are some people who judge the left in America today as being as divisive as the confederates.

When should we judge using today's standards? That's quite easy, we should judge others for as long as those standards have existed. Why in the hell would I apply anything that's presently a standard to anything that happened even 5 years ago? It seems straight forward.

Well let's be clear it's not a judgement to say that Robert Byrd was once the grand moron of the KKK thats a fact. That's not at all the same. And as I stated I make no judgement of him as that was the time and place in which he lived. Was he evil? George Wallace blocked the door of the University of Alabama trying to prevent blacks front entering. Fact not judgement. Was he evil? BTW I would caution you in the same regard when it's applied to republicans.

Glad to hear it.
 
No I won't because all you leftist cunts deserve is what you get from me. You're a fucking liar and if you don't like it out me on ignore. I dont consider leftists to be human.
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Just an FYI, the reason I was hesitant is because of the evidence. This is from yesterday.
 
Yakuda said:
Their choice to secede did not occur in a vacuum. How we view people and what they actually are are not the same thing.

I disagree with your take on the good vs evil if we don't judge. It's been my experience that people usually seem much more comfortable judging others but really seem to haye it when others judge them. I suspect there are some people who judge the left in America today as being as divisive as the confederates.

When should we judge using today's standards? That's quite easy, we should judge others for as long as those standards have existed. Why in the hell would I apply anything that's presently a standard to anything that happened even 5 years ago? It seems straight forward.

Well let's be clear it's not a judgement to say that Robert Byrd was once the grand moron of the KKK thats a fact. That's not at all the same. And as I stated I make no judgement of him as that was the time and place in which he lived. Was he evil? George Wallace blocked the door of the University of Alabama trying to prevent blacks front entering. Fact not judgement. Was he evil? BTW I would caution you in the same regard when it's applied to republicans.

Glad to hear it.
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I do my best not to be judgemental of other unless others are being hurt. Yes, Byrd was evil. He did find redemption through his work (i believe). Not an expert on Byrd.

If we don't identify right/wrong of the past how do we learn from it? I can understand many obviously "wrong" behaviors. That doesn't mean they are not wrong.

Somethings without victims, are not worth judging someone for. Once a victim is created, that changes things.
 
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This is embarrassing, insulting. This isn’t my crib. I don’t live there.

What are you coming to my house with? Drugs and hookers.
What’s everybody doing there? Fagoting it up in the yard.

HOW TO RUN A SUCCESSFUL GOLF TOURNAMENT

Here's how to put it together:
Contact a golf course for your fundraiser. ...
Create a planning document for your fundraising committee. ...
Decide what fee you will charge for your fundraiser. ...
Assemble a sponsorship packet for your fundraiser. ...
Create fliers to hand our for your fundraiser. ...
Make sure you have food at your fundraiser.
Take this outing and leave it at the course in Miami.

 
Whythink said:
I do my best not to be judgemental of other unless others are being hurt. Yes, Byrd was evil. He did find redemption through his work (i believe). Not an expert on Byrd.

If we don't identify right/wrong of the past how do we learn from it? I can understand many obviously "wrong" behaviors. That doesn't mean they are not wrong.

Somethings without victims, are not worth judging someone for. Once a victim is created, that changes things.
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I would suggest right and wrong are not the same as good and evil. Good or evil is more about intent which is more difficult to assess. People do seemingly good things for evil reasons all the time. I care less about their intent then I do their behavior. Behavior I think is more about good or bad. I think looking at behavior is far more important than trying to apply intent to their behavior.

I might also suggest very few things that are wrong are victimless.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
have another glass of blue koolaid, stooge
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https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states

Georgia
The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation.

Mississippi
In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

South Carolina
The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.
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What kool-aid? The historic truth. Those are the secession documents. There "declarations on independence" from the United States of America.

Heck, Mississippi actually states it is because of slavery. South Carolina isn't as blunt but it doesn't take a stable genius to figure it out. (Person, women, man, tv, etc...)lol

HINT: If you are going to claim to be smarter, try making an actual point.
 
Whythink said:
What kool-aid? The historic truth. Those are the secession documents. There "declarations on independence" from the United States of America.

Heck, Mississippi actually states it is because of slavery. South Carolina isn't as blunt but it doesn't take a stable genius to figure it out. (Person, women, man, tv, etc...)lol
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I always find it amusing to listen to so called liberals crying about seeking freedom, so much so that they can appreciate what the founding fathers did, while at the very same time calling the Declaration of Independence nothing more than a press announcement, that is has no legal validity, and that other declarations are nothing more than treason against America.

talk about paradox
 
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