Yet More Bans? Liberals banning fireplaces, poor families to suffer

TheDanold

Unimatrix
Fucking left, I'm getting tired of this squeeze on every last part of our lifestyle in the name of global warming.
I had a poor friend growing up who's Dad used to gather wood to heat all winter as that was all they could afford. Now what will poor people heat with? Oil?
Way to fucking go moronic authoritarian Liberals!

"Under the auspices of the Bay Area Air Quality Management District, "public hearings" are being held to determine the fate of the family hearth.

Those of us who live in rural areas have a pretty good idea what the outcome is going to be.

Still, in the interest of basic fairness, we'd at least like the decision-makers to employ the rudiments of the scientific method, rather than riding the winds of energy dependence and global warming hysteria, before coming to a final decision.

The scientific method follows a rigid methodology. Ask a question. Do background research. Construct a hypothesis. Test the hypothesis. And then, communicate the results.

So what is the question? Are the fires in our homes bad because they add to global warming? Release carbon dioxide into the air? Pollute the atmosphere with soot and particulate matter? All of the above?

Where is the research? The Chronicle reported that "government studies" indicate that 33 percent of all "particulate matter" comes from your fireplace and mine. With all the industry and all the cars in the Bay Area, does anyone actually believe that?

Shouldn't we be given more quantitative information such has, "How many fireplaces are there in the nine counties? How many are used each night? How many hours is each fireplace used? How much "particulate matter" is expelled from each fire? How many parts per million are in the air? How much dissipates into the atmosphere?"

Is this decision truly about air quality or global warming?

Interestingly, one loses on the issues of global warming because the odd paradox is, the more there is cloud cover or "smoke" in the air, the cooler the Earth will be. It is well documented how the Earth's temperature cooled after the explosion of the volcano Krakatoa. From that standpoint, one ought to encourage fires which produce the maximum amount of smoke.

Of course, that position is politically absurd.

Those of us in rural communities feel bullied by this sort of nanny state legislation. We'd like to believe that a man's home is indeed his castle. Most of us live in small towns or the country for a reason. We don't like cities. We don't like traffic. We don't like noise. We don't like the dirty air.

Our air is clean, and we take umbrage when someone says our fires are polluting their air.

If the ban goes into effect, what is the cost to society? What is the benefit? We need to weigh these carefully.

Then there is this question: Why do we burn?

We stoke our hearths for two reasons.

First, many rural people burn wood because they can't afford to heat their old houses with electricity. Many more feel that burning wood does less damage to the planet than increasing their carbon footprint by using so much electricity.

Banning fires would hurt the elderly who live on fixed incomes and the poor in general. It would be an added tax on the rest of us and increase dependence on petroleum.

Second, for many of us, a fire crackling in the fireplace is about a different kind of energy - psychic energy. After a day's work, is there anything nicer than coming home and having a class of Napa Valley Cabernet in front of a roaring fire?"
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/22/EDNKTDK1S.DTL
 
"Where is the research? The Chronicle reported that "government studies" indicate that 33 percent of all "particulate matter" comes from your fireplace and mine. With all the industry and all the cars in the Bay Area, does anyone actually believe that?"


Man, that's some great dissenting evidence. If only we ran the nation like that, it would be a conservative utopia, where everyone would frollick in fields and hold hands.
 
You are taking it out of context, the article goes on to ask specific questions that would give the information that would allow them to make better decisions.
 
"Where is the research? The Chronicle reported that "government studies" indicate that 33 percent of all "particulate matter" comes from your fireplace and mine. With all the industry and all the cars in the Bay Area, does anyone actually believe that?"


Man, that's some great dissenting evidence. If only we ran the nation like that, it would be a conservative utopia, where everyone would frollick in fields and hold hands.

Are you in favor of the ban? Trees are renewable and oil is not.
 
Are you in favor of the ban? Trees are renewable and oil is not.

Burning trees, of course, doesn't hurt the enviroment. It took just as much CO2 to build up the tree as you're releasing into the atmosphere.

In an urban setting, however, such extremely soot laden fuels could become quite a nuisance and cause lot's of smog.
 
Burning trees, of course, doesn't hurt the enviroment. It took just as much CO2 to build up the tree as you're releasing into the atmosphere.

In an urban setting, however, such extremely soot laden fuels could become quite a nuisance and cause lot's of smog.

Ok and so back to the article, do you really think that there are a ton of fireplaces burning in San Fran?
It's most common in rural areas, where there has never been an issue. Also there is no soot, these are trees, not coal.
As for smog, that is from cars, you've got to be kidding me.

Also CO2 does not "hurt" the environment, if it did you better tell all the oceans to stop belching far more of it into the atmosphere than all of mankind.

Lastly, what is the alternative, oil? Natural gas? Electricity which can involve coal or other polluting means of generation?

The ban is wrong for many reasons.
 
"smog" comes from a lot of things, Dano. The soot from wood fireplaces (yes, soot does come from more than coal) would obviously harm their atmosphere.

Your part about CO2 not hurting the enviroment pretty much discredited everything you said.
 
Wow, we can split CO2 into C and O2. It would be economically viable if Carbon trading were made economically viable. Damn those lefties for making Carbon trading unfeasible. Stupid lefties.
 
"smog" comes from a lot of things, Dano. The soot from wood fireplaces (yes, soot does come from more than coal) would obviously harm their atmosphere.
I mean not in any noticeable amount. I run a wood stove all winter and a fireplace now and then. Yes there is a lot of soot in the bottom, there is some that lines the chimney and creosote. But the amount going in the air? I don't even see the slightest trace on any shingle on my roof after years.
It's incredibly minute, and is not like people imagine with black soot covering things - that is what coal does.

Your part about CO2 not hurting the enviroment pretty much discredited everything you said.[/QUOTE]
One point discredits others does it?
That one point is right as well, oceans emit FAR more CO2 than we do (do you dispute that?) and I don't consider CO2 a problem:

Look Watermark, I know how you look at global warming sceptics, you don't even want to hear them, you feel it's settled and there should be no debate (not that there ever was one), you see them as the same people who deny evolution. Yet the science in climatology is still developing and it is new (relatively speaking) evolution has been proposed for almost a century and a half, global warming is under 20 years old with FAR more variables. We make new discoveries all the time such as with wind shear, cosmic rays and most importantly solar radiation. It is just plain ignorance to NOT listen to any scepticism simply because it counters a belief. Science is about evidence, counter that.
 
"smog" comes from a lot of things, Dano. The soot from wood fireplaces (yes, soot does come from more than coal) would obviously harm their atmosphere.
I mean not in any noticeable amount. I run a wood stove all winter and a fireplace now and then. Yes there is a lot of soot in the bottom, there is some that lines the chimney and creosote. But the amount going in the air? I don't even see the slightest trace on any shingle on my roof after years.
It's incredibly minute, and is not like people imagine with black soot covering things - that is what coal does.

Your part about CO2 not hurting the enviroment pretty much discredited everything you said.
One point discredits others does it?
That one point is right as well, oceans emit FAR more CO2 than we do (do you dispute that?) and I don't consider CO2 a problem:

Look Watermark, I know how you look at global warming sceptics, you don't even want to hear them, you feel it's settled and there should be no debate (not that there ever was one), you see them as the same people who deny evolution. Yet the science in climatology is still developing and it is new (relatively speaking) evolution has been proposed for almost a century and a half, global warming is under 20 years old with FAR more variables. We make new discoveries all the time such as with wind shear, cosmic rays and most importantly solar radiation. It is just plain ignorance to NOT listen to any scepticism simply because it counters a belief. Science is about evidence, counter that.
 
Those companies that would prosper a small degree less have enough money to make it seem as if they'd suffer to a ridiculous degree, when, the truth is, they wouldn't suffer much at all
 
Those companies that would prosper a small degree less have enough money to make it seem as if they'd suffer to a ridiculous degree, when, the truth is, they wouldn't suffer much at all

BS, your premise assumes companies would not welcome good PR for nothing in cost. That is laughable, they know it will cost more. This thread is just one example of how life will be more expensive and harder for change/bans done in the name of capping CO2 output.
Liar.
 
Dano, I can EASILY split CO2 into one carbon atom and one O2 atom. If there were a means to do it EQUITABLY, I wouldn't be the only one talking about it.

THINK, you fucking idiot.
 
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