APP - Do biological viruses actually exist?

This is inane, they literally can isolate the DNA from the virus, this ignores advances in DNA we use daily. This is the equivalent of ignoring the big blue marble image taken by an astronaut while he was orbiting the Moon. They can isolate the virus as it exits, they can isolate its DNA from the original DNA of the cell, it uses the cell to multiply so it can infect more cells... replicating itself by hijacking the mitosis process in the cell.

Folks like this will literally go out on a lake, prove the curvature of the Earth on accident and then pretend it was the experiment that was flawed rather than their ill conceived hypothesis.
The whole point is the deniers set up one test that is impossible to meet and then declare that because no one can meet their impossible test it doesn't exist. In order to do this they have to ignore all the other evidence that shows it to exist. One example is the silly argument that because a PCR test only looks for certain sequences of the viruses RNA then the PCR test isn't actually finding the virus.

Scott was here 6 months ago promoting the same nonsense. We'll probably see him back here again in another 6 months to a year doing this all over again.
 
The whole point is the deniers set up one test that is impossible to meet and then declare that because no one can meet their impossible test it doesn't exist. In order to do this they have to ignore all the other evidence that shows it to exist. One example is the silly argument that because a PCR test only looks for certain sequences of the viruses RNA then the PCR test isn't actually finding the virus.

Scott was here 6 months ago promoting the same nonsense. We'll probably see him back here again in another 6 months to a year doing this all over again.
It always makes me laugh... It takes all types I guess.
 
A long article on what's wrong with virology. Quite possibly not something anyone here would be interested in reading, but just in case...
The article and experts never cite a single study to support their claims, they "suggest" things and never provide science to back it up. It references a book that again doesn't actually cite a study or any studies to support their position it just claims "a decade of research" without data to support any of its claims, not even one study that negates the studies they suggest are lacking just a near religious belief that thousands of studies are all "wrong" based on actual studies done by what they call a "cult". (Cult of actual Science, I guess).

Basically, they ignore actual scientific process to simply claim problems in early studies on the subject while ignoring advances and literally thousands of follow up studies which prove the existence of actual entities, from images, DNA, RNA, observation, studies from thousands of sources we know that viruses actually exist, how they act, and can even map the DNA to a level where we can actually predict likely symptoms.

In your cited "research" they never provide studies that prove any study on virology false, which is how it is done using the scientific method. You have a hypothesis (viruses do not exist as claimed in these thousands of studies), then you prove the studies to be false through the scientific process...

Anyway... You have provided no new information, and no studies to support your claims, and extraordinary claims like this need extraordinary evidence to back them up, you provide weak evidence backed up by sketchy "research" and not even one study. Having interviews with folks who sit around and tell you that something we can observe doesn't exist repeatedly is not extraordinary enough to convince actual scientists your claims have any merit, shoot you won't even be able to convince a room full of normies...
 
A long article on what's wrong with virology. Quite possibly not something anyone here would be interested in reading, but just in case...
The article and experts never cite a single study to support their claims

Surely you must recognize that no one would pay for such a study, as it falls the current medical norms. What they -do- do is provide plenty of logical evidence that virology is a scientific field of research. For those who haven't looked at the article, I think the very first point of its 12 point summary is quite good. Quoting:
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  1. The "No Virus" Position Fundamentally Challenges Virology: The No Virus position argues that viruses—as defined in modern medical science—do not exist because they have never been properly isolated according to the scientific method. This goes beyond merely questioning if specific viruses cause particular diseases; it challenges whether the microscopic intracellular parasites called "viruses" have ever been proven to exist at all, potentially rendering the entire field of virology a "house of cards."
**
 
Surely you must recognize that no one would pay for such a study, as it falls the current medical norms. What they -do- do is provide plenty of logical evidence that virology is a scientific field of research. For those who haven't looked at the article, I think the very first point of its 12 point summary is quite good. Quoting:
**
  1. The "No Virus" Position Fundamentally Challenges Virology: The No Virus position argues that viruses—as defined in modern medical science—do not exist because they have never been properly isolated according to the scientific method. This goes beyond merely questioning if specific viruses cause particular diseases; it challenges whether the microscopic intracellular parasites called "viruses" have ever been proven to exist at all, potentially rendering the entire field of virology a "house of cards."
**
You think that nobody would pay for such a study, because you are unwilling to put your money where your beliefs are... start a gofundme and get it done, son.

It is so bizarre that someone that literally follows a cult that ignores thousands of actual scientific studies calls science a "cult" and then cites not even one study that supports his nonsensical religious beliefs.
 
How science works:

Someone comes up with a hypothesis, he tests it vigorously and reports on the results. Others like the idea, run different tests proving the same thing or disproving it, they report the results. Peers review the studies and write on it, then run some studies of their own, report on those studies...

Each level of studies reinforces what we have learned over the years on viruses, no studies have proven the opposite.

Not only are all those studies there, each have built on the other and we not only know that viruses exist, we have images of them, can study them and how they act by even watching what they do, can map their genomes, their RNA and DNA, to a level that we can even predict what new symptoms a new mutation of the virus will likely cause to a very accurate level... and what has "Scott" got? Some book that cites no studies written by people that have done no studies.
 
Surely you must recognize that no one would pay for such a study, as it falls [outside of] the current medical norms. What they -do- do is provide plenty of logical evidence that virology is [not] a scientific field of research. For those who haven't looked at the article, I think the very first point of its 12 point summary is quite good. Quoting:
**
  1. The "No Virus" Position Fundamentally Challenges Virology: The No Virus position argues that viruses—as defined in modern medical science—do not exist because they have never been properly isolated according to the scientific method. This goes beyond merely questioning if specific viruses cause particular diseases; it challenges whether the microscopic intracellular parasites called "viruses" have ever been proven to exist at all, potentially rendering the entire field of virology a "house of cards."
**
You think that nobody would pay for such a study, because you are unwilling to put your money where your beliefs are...

Actually, there has been some work on doing some experiments to test whether or not biological viruses are real, though perhaps the main guy behind this has had some serious issues with what I consider to be the core group of medical doctors and other researchers due to his rather intolerant views. As to myself, I put my money where my beliefs are all the time, most notably in what I buy for food. I don't have the money to be funding studies, but I do have the time to try to point out the flaws in virology and other conventional belief systems.

start a gofundme and get it done, son.

I don't think that trying to find money for this is worth my time- I think far more important is pointing out the flaws in virology.

It is so bizarre that someone that literally follows a cult that ignores thousands of actual scientific studies calls science a "cult" and then cites not even one study that supports his nonsensical religious beliefs.

Perhaps we can agree that anyone can call whatever they like a 'cult'. What we should be focused on is the evidence, including studies that have already been done by virologists. Do they follow the scientific method? I believe that the group of medical doctors and other researchers that are referenced in the opening post of this thread, as well as the author of the unbecoming article have provided compelling evidence that they don't.
 
How science works:

Someone comes up with a hypothesis, he tests it vigorously and reports on the results. Others like the idea, run different tests proving the same thing or disproving it, they report the results. Peers review the studies and write on it, then run some studies of their own, report on those studies...

Each level of studies reinforces what we have learned over the years on viruses, no studies have proven the opposite.

Not only are all those studies there, each have built on the other and we not only know that viruses exist, we have images of them, can study them and how they act by even watching what they do, can map their genomes, their RNA and DNA, to a level that we can even predict what new symptoms a new mutation of the virus will likely cause to a very accurate level... and what has "Scott" got? Some book that cites no studies written by people that have done no studies.
We have images of microbes that virologists claim are biological viruses. The problem is that there is no solid evidence that second microbes are actually biological viruses. As to the studies you refer to, they are all built on non scientific evidence. Again, I'd like to draw your attention to the very first statement of the Unbecoming article:
**
  1. The "No Virus" Position Fundamentally Challenges Virology: The No Virus position argues that viruses—as defined in modern medical science—do not exist because they have never been properly isolated according to the scientific method. This goes beyond merely questioning if specific viruses cause particular diseases; it challenges whether the microscopic intracellular parasites called "viruses" have ever been proven to exist at all, potentially rendering the entire field of virology a "house of cards."
**

Show me a case where -any- virus has been propertly isolated. That's literally the first step to determining whether these things actually exist.
 
We have images of microbes that virologists claim are biological viruses. The problem is that there is no solid evidence that second microbes are actually biological viruses. As to the studies you refer to, they are all built on non scientific evidence. Again, I'd like to draw your attention to the very first statement of the Unbecoming article:
**
  1. The "No Virus" Position Fundamentally Challenges Virology: The No Virus position argues that viruses—as defined in modern medical science—do not exist because they have never been properly isolated according to the scientific method. This goes beyond merely questioning if specific viruses cause particular diseases; it challenges whether the microscopic intracellular parasites called "viruses" have ever been proven to exist at all, potentially rendering the entire field of virology a "house of cards."
**

Show me a case where -any- virus has been propertly isolated. That's literally the first step to determining whether these things actually exist.
As I said, repeating the same question after literally thousands of viruses have been isolated doesn't make it more salient, it just makes you a member of the "cult" that you claim that scientists belong in. Over and over proven in study after study, isolating the virus, infecting other animals in some studies with the isolated virus, sequencing the DNA... mapping the DNA. These aren't "sketchy images" they are done in repeatable, controlled, and independently verified experiments using the scientific method.

100% of your argument is repeating the massively erroneous, and in my opinion purposefully disingenuous, statement that "no virus has ever been isolated". It is like arguing with a young earth "theorist" who rejects fossils as evidence. Or, using my earlier flat earther analogy, like a flat earther rejecting the fact of "telescopes"...
 
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The whole point is the deniers set up one test that is impossible to meet and then declare that because no one can meet their impossible test it doesn't exist. In order to do this they have to ignore all the other evidence that shows it to exist. One example is the silly argument that because a PCR test only looks for certain sequences of the viruses RNA then the PCR test isn't actually finding the virus.

Scott was here 6 months ago promoting the same nonsense. We'll probably see him back here again in another 6 months to a year doing this all over again.

But why? For what purpose?
 
Show me a case where -any- virus has been propertly isolated. That's literally the first step to determining whether these things actually exist.
As I said, repeating the same question after literally thousands of viruses have been isolated doesn't make it more salient, it just makes you a member of the "cult" that you claim that scientists belong in. Over and over proven in study after study, isolating the virus [snip]

Virologists define isolation in a way that no one else does. To see where this all started, we need to look at the work of Franklin Enders. Quoting from an article that gets into his work:
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EndersIsolation.jpeg

For over 60 years, virologists struggled to convincingly demonstrate that they were working with actual pathogenic “viruses” in their experiments. In fact, there wasn't even consensus on what a “virus” was until 1957. However, in 1954, virologist John Franklin Enders, while supposedly working with the measles “virus,” introduced an illogical experimental setup that allowed researchers to claim that they were working with the entities that they believed were present in the fluids of sick patients. This was the cell culture experiment, which began with the assumption that the unseen “viruses” were already present within a sick patient's fluids. When these fluids were added to a Petri dish containing kidney cells from African green monkeys, along with various chemicals and foreign additives, Enders observed what he referred to as the cytopathogenic effect (CPE). This effect was then attributed to “viruses” and used as evidence that these invisible entities are present within the sample, thus completing the illogical circular loop where the effect was taken as proof of the cause. This experimental method was fundamentally flawed, as it was based on the fallacy of begging the question. This basic illogical premise is ingrained in all virology research that has proceeded afterwards.

[snip]

In these cases, people are assuming a connection between two events simply because they occurred one after the other or closely together in time. This same flawed reasoning is evident in the cell culture experiments performed by virologists. They assume that adding unpurified lung fluid or nasal mucus from a sick patient to a culture of monkey kidney cells, followed by the observation of CPE, implies that a “virus” was present in the sample and ultimately caused the CPE. This reasoning ties back to the fallacy of begging the question regarding the existence of the “virus” in the first place, as well as affirming the consequent by using the effect (CPE) as proof of the supposed cause (the “virus”). It's a tangled web of circular reasoning, with no direct proof of any entity described as a pathogenic “virus” before any experiments or observations take place.

This fallacy was utilized by John Franklin Enders in his original 1954 paper establishing the cell culture experiment when he assumed that the CPE that occurred in his “infected” cultures was evidence that he has “isolated” the cause of the effect in the measles “virus.”

B ) Cytopathogenic range. Monkey kidney is the only other tissue employed that has yielded a growth of cells in which the characteristic changes described above have been definitely observed following inoculation of virus. In cultures consisting largely of monkey renal epithelial cells as prepared by Youngner’s modification of Dulbecco’s technic (13) cytopathic changes have been regularly observed which resemble closely those produced by these agents in human renal cells as seen in both fresh and stained preparations. These effects followed the addition of blood or throat washings from cases of measles as well as infected tissue culture fluids derived from previous passages.

Directly after this passage, Enders did concede to other possible causes of the observed CPE. However, he still maintained that the CPE caused by these other “viral” agents or unknown factors resembled the CPE that he was already attributing to a measles “virus.”

Monkey kidney cultures may, therefore, be applied to the study of these agents in the same manner as cultures of human kidney. In so doing, however, it must be borne in mind that cytopathic effects which superficially resemble those resulting from infection by the measles agents may possibly be induced by other viral agents present in the monkey kidney tissue (cf. last paragraph under G) or by unknown factors.
Enders would ultimately conclude that the findings in his paper of the cytopathogenic changes supported his presumption that they are caused by the measles “virus.”

Conclusion. The findings just summarized support the presumption that this group of agents is composed of representatives of the viral species responsible for measles.

Why Enders would initially believe that the cytopathogenic changes observed in tissue and cell cultures were caused by a “measles virus” is puzzling, especially given his own acknowledgments in a paper titled Cytopathology of Virus Infections: Particular Reference to Tissue Culture Studies, published the same year as his measles paper. In this work, Enders made some revealing concessions regarding the interpretation of CPE. He explained that CPE can be triggered by many harmful agents, and that, on its own, this observation could not be conclusively attributed to “viral” activity. Despite this, Enders asserted that an observer familiar with the specific CPE patterns attributed to a particular “virus” might tentatively conclude that a “virus” is responsible.

“The phenomena mentioned above under Group 1 changes may be evoked by many noxious agents. Accordingly, they cannot alone be considered as necessarily the result of viral activity. To prove this certain control procedures (serial cultivation, prevention of changes by homologous antibody, etc.) must be applied. Familiarity, however, with the effects of a specific virus in a given cell system often enables the observer to conclude tentatively that this virus is responsible.”

[snip]

Enders conceded that cytopathogenic changes observed in the lab are influenced by numerous factors—some known, while others remain undefined. He attempted to correlate certain susceptible cell lines with “viral replication,” but he noted that this correlation did not always hold true, and that the opposite was sometimes observed:

Cytopathogenicity in vitro is influenced by factors some of which are known while many remain to be defined. At the outset a few of those now recognized will be mentioned as an introduction to the review of recorded observations on the behavior of individual agents. Of primary importance is the species from which the cells are derived. Analogous to the host range of a virus is its cytopathogenic range in cultivated cells. But correlation between susceptibility of the organism and its cells in vivo does not always exist. For although this correlation frequently obtains, the tissues of a susceptible species occasionally fail to support viral multiplication while the converse of this situation also occurs.

Enders tried to argue that certain “viruses” specifically target certain cell types, but he also admitted that there is no absolute relationship between cytotropism in vivo and in vitro:

Cell type is, with certain viruses, a determining factor. Thus an agent may attack and destroy epithelial cells present in a culture leaving fibroblasts intact. Experiments with strains consisting of a single cell type have been few, but the results indicate that the cytotropic properties of viruses in vivo may be retained in vitro. Once more, however, there is no absolute relationship between cytotropism in vivo and in vitro.

[snip]

Moreover, Enders admitted that the conditions under which the assumed “virus” has been propagated prior to its study in tissue culture can influence the intensity and degree of CPE. He acknowledged that serial passaging might enhance moderate or weak cytopathogenicity, showing that the researcher's approach can directly influence the observation of CPE:

The intensity and degree of cytopathic injury may vary according to the strain of virus or the conditions under which it has been propagated prior to its study in tissue culture. The investigator should be prepared to encounter such variations in the study of a number of representatives of a viral species. Moderate or weak cytopathogenicity may sometimes be enhanced by serial passage in vitro.

Finally, Enders recognized that environmental factors—both known and unknown—within the culture can also enhance or suppress cytopathogenic activity. He pointed to the composition of the medium, the temperature of incubation, and the period of cultivation of the cells before the addition of any “virus” as factors that influence CPE:
Environmental factors in the culture may tend to enhance or suppress cytopathogenic activity. Of these many have not yet been defined, but there is evidence that composition of the medium, temperature of incubation, and period of cultivation of the cells before addition of virus may all be determinants.

Thus, it is evident that John Franklin Enders was aware of various factors unrelated to the presence of any “virus” that could cause the cytopathogenic effect he attributed to the “virus.” Given that he had no direct evidence pertaining to the existence of, and actually working with, a pathogenic “virus” (begging the question) and that he used an observed effect to assert the existence of its cause (affirming the consequent), it becomes clear that Enders committed a false cause fallacy. There were multiple known factors capable of producing the same effect, making the explanation of a “virus” unnecessary and entirely illogical.
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Full article:
 
But why? For what purpose?

I and others in the 'no solid evidence for biological viruses' movement believe that biological viruses don't exist. If this is true, it means that society is wasting an awful lot of time in trying to prevent the spread of non existent entities. That in an of itself would be a worthy goal.
 
Surely you must recognize that no one would pay for such a study, as it falls the current medical norms. What they -do- do is provide plenty of logical evidence that virology is a scientific field of research. For those who haven't looked at the article, I think the very first point of its 12 point summary is quite good. Quoting:
**
  1. The "No Virus" Position Fundamentally Challenges Virology: The No Virus position argues that viruses—as defined in modern medical science—do not exist because they have never been properly isolated according to the scientific method. This goes beyond merely questioning if specific viruses cause particular diseases; it challenges whether the microscopic intracellular parasites called "viruses" have ever been proven to exist at all, potentially rendering the entire field of virology a "house of cards."
**
Why would no one pay for such a study since if it succeeded it would be world changing and likely result in a Nobel prize?

This is where you again fail in your argument. What is the correct way to isolate a virus? By demanding that they be isolated in a way that viruses can't be isolated doesn't show that viruses don't exist. It only shows that the person arguing they don't exist is being disingenuous in their arguments. Then by simply relying on the "isolation" argument and ignoring all the other evidence shows that it is the "No Virus" position that is a house of cards. Science theory is based on the best explanation for ALL the evidence.

The "No Virus" theory can't explain what is in the pictures of viruses if they aren't viruses.
The "No Virus" theory can't explain how the diseases caused by viruses are transmitted if there is no virus.
The "No Virus" theory can't explain why RNA sequences are found in only person infected with a virus if there is no virus.
The "No Virus" theory can't explain why there are pictures of viruses if they can't be isolated enough to take the pictures.

You are doing nothing but promoting classic conspiracy theory BS where the purveyors of that conspiracy theory try to find one thing they can argue is not true while ignoring the overwhelming evidence that shows their BS is BS.
 
I and others in the 'no solid evidence for biological viruses' movement believe that biological viruses don't exist. If this is true, it means that society is wasting an awful lot of time in trying to prevent the spread of non existent entities. That in an of itself would be a worthy goal.
You are wasting an awful lot of time here promoting a conspiracy theory when you could be raising money to make yourself famous for proving viruses don't exist.

The problem you and others in the "No Virus" world have is you simply ignore any evidence that doesn't fit your world view. That isn't science. Science requires you to accept things that experiments show to be true and find a theory that meets all those facts.

Until you can explain why RNA sequences are found for viruses only at times when symptoms of a certain illness are visible you have no valid theory that viruses don't exist.
 
Virologists define isolation in a way that no one else does. To see where this all started, we need to look at the work of Franklin Enders. Quoting from an article that gets into his work:
**
View attachment 45906

For over 60 years, virologists struggled to convincingly demonstrate that they were working with actual pathogenic “viruses” in their experiments. In fact, there wasn't even consensus on what a “virus” was until 1957. However, in 1954, virologist John Franklin Enders, while supposedly working with the measles “virus,” introduced an illogical experimental setup that allowed researchers to claim that they were working with the entities that they believed were present in the fluids of sick patients. This was the cell culture experiment, which began with the assumption that the unseen “viruses” were already present within a sick patient's fluids. When these fluids were added to a Petri dish containing kidney cells from African green monkeys, along with various chemicals and foreign additives, Enders observed what he referred to as the cytopathogenic effect (CPE). This effect was then attributed to “viruses” and used as evidence that these invisible entities are present within the sample, thus completing the illogical circular loop where the effect was taken as proof of the cause. This experimental method was fundamentally flawed, as it was based on the fallacy of begging the question. This basic illogical premise is ingrained in all virology research that has proceeded afterwards.

[snip]

In these cases, people are assuming a connection between two events simply because they occurred one after the other or closely together in time. This same flawed reasoning is evident in the cell culture experiments performed by virologists. They assume that adding unpurified lung fluid or nasal mucus from a sick patient to a culture of monkey kidney cells, followed by the observation of CPE, implies that a “virus” was present in the sample and ultimately caused the CPE. This reasoning ties back to the fallacy of begging the question regarding the existence of the “virus” in the first place, as well as affirming the consequent by using the effect (CPE) as proof of the supposed cause (the “virus”). It's a tangled web of circular reasoning, with no direct proof of any entity described as a pathogenic “virus” before any experiments or observations take place.

This fallacy was utilized by John Franklin Enders in his original 1954 paper establishing the cell culture experiment when he assumed that the CPE that occurred in his “infected” cultures was evidence that he has “isolated” the cause of the effect in the measles “virus.”



Directly after this passage, Enders did concede to other possible causes of the observed CPE. However, he still maintained that the CPE caused by these other “viral” agents or unknown factors resembled the CPE that he was already attributing to a measles “virus.”


Enders would ultimately conclude that the findings in his paper of the cytopathogenic changes supported his presumption that they are caused by the measles “virus.”



Why Enders would initially believe that the cytopathogenic changes observed in tissue and cell cultures were caused by a “measles virus” is puzzling, especially given his own acknowledgments in a paper titled Cytopathology of Virus Infections: Particular Reference to Tissue Culture Studies, published the same year as his measles paper. In this work, Enders made some revealing concessions regarding the interpretation of CPE. He explained that CPE can be triggered by many harmful agents, and that, on its own, this observation could not be conclusively attributed to “viral” activity. Despite this, Enders asserted that an observer familiar with the specific CPE patterns attributed to a particular “virus” might tentatively conclude that a “virus” is responsible.



[snip]

Enders conceded that cytopathogenic changes observed in the lab are influenced by numerous factors—some known, while others remain undefined. He attempted to correlate certain susceptible cell lines with “viral replication,” but he noted that this correlation did not always hold true, and that the opposite was sometimes observed:



Enders tried to argue that certain “viruses” specifically target certain cell types, but he also admitted that there is no absolute relationship between cytotropism in vivo and in vitro:



[snip]

Moreover, Enders admitted that the conditions under which the assumed “virus” has been propagated prior to its study in tissue culture can influence the intensity and degree of CPE. He acknowledged that serial passaging might enhance moderate or weak cytopathogenicity, showing that the researcher's approach can directly influence the observation of CPE:



Finally, Enders recognized that environmental factors—both known and unknown—within the culture can also enhance or suppress cytopathogenic activity. He pointed to the composition of the medium, the temperature of incubation, and the period of cultivation of the cells before the addition of any “virus” as factors that influence CPE:


Thus, it is evident that John Franklin Enders was aware of various factors unrelated to the presence of any “virus” that could cause the cytopathogenic effect he attributed to the “virus.” Given that he had no direct evidence pertaining to the existence of, and actually working with, a pathogenic “virus” (begging the question) and that he used an observed effect to assert the existence of its cause (affirming the consequent), it becomes clear that Enders committed a false cause fallacy. There were multiple known factors capable of producing the same effect, making the explanation of a “virus” unnecessary and entirely illogical.

**

Full article:
Wow... It seems you think that if you dispute a method used to isolate the measles viruses over 80 years ago it will just negate the next 80 years of science that includes genetic sequencing. John Franklin Enders won the Nobel Prize in 1954 for showing they they were capable of growing the polio virus in a culture in 1949.

Failure to tell us why genetic sequencing can be used for viruses means you only have a house of cards and are relying on denial of old science while ignoring any new science.
 
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He probably wrote portions of that book, therefore if he convinces a few more people to buy it, he might be able to get a new tire for his Huffy.
Your words cut deep, especially considering you're the Administrator of this forum. I've decided it's not worth debating this issue here at this point. I think I've provided enough information here for anyone truly interested in the possibility that biological viruses don't exist to follow the evidence and ultimately end up where I'm at now.
 
Your words cut deep, especially considering you're the Administrator of this forum. I've decided it's not worth debating this issue here at this point. I think I've provided enough information here for anyone truly interested in the possibility that biological viruses don't exist to follow the evidence and ultimately end up where I'm at now.
Fair enough. I've noted repeatedly your "information" simply repeats something without regard to the mountain of evidence. You make an extraordinary claim and therefore need extraordinary evidence to back it up, you brought nothing, not one study, nothing but conjecture and repetition of the same conjecture. You need to do a gofundme or something to get some funding for some actual studies... Reading articles written by the same person over and over is not "information".
 
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