So we have a US born American citizen being held without trial

Hume said:
Trump want to normalize kidnapping off the streets. Like Hitler's Gestapo.
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It's a real shame. But it's people who sat out the election because they were "miffed" at Kamala for some slight they perceived. In sitting it out those people are COMPLICIT in all the excesses.

We could have had a very different outcome if enough people had voted for Kamala.

When I hear someone who sat out the election complaining I really honestly want them to experience all the horrors here and now. No complaints from people who "sat out" the election in 2024. They are just as culpable as Trump and Stephen Miller himself.
 
IBDaMann said:
That whole 'born here' crap is the Amendment's original intent and won't be rolled back.
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Wrong. The key words are "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" which does not apply to non-citizens.

AMENDMENT XIV​

Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Some were arrested, jailed without bail, and not even indicted, like Lucas Denney of Texas. He was arrested in Texas and charged with several felonies. He was then transferred to the DC jail system where he sat for months without an indictment (required by federal procedure within 30 days of arrest), never given a preliminary hearing, and sat in jail for over a year in that status.
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Interesting that you are claiming that Denney did not get habeas corpus when his habeas corpus petition is actually online. He got full due process.

Let's compare and contrast Denney's due process to trump's lack of due process to others. Denny was arrested on an arrest warrant, which meant that the prosecutor had to provide probable cause of a crime. trump insists he has the right to arrest anyone on suspicion. Denney was immediately allowed to contact his friends and family, and given contact with a lawyer. trump just disappears people. If no one notices them missing, it sucks to be them. Family members are often forced to call dozens of police stations, and other places searching for their loved ones. When they do find their loved ones, lawyers are not allowed to contact the accused.

With a lawyer, Denney was able to go through his extradition hearing in Texas. If the warrant had been improper, he could have contested it then. He was then sent to Virginia(not DC). The DC jail system is rarely used by the Federal authorities. trump claims the right to send people to foreign countries without a hearing, or even allegations. They get no lawyer.

When Denney got to Virginia, he was given constant contact with his lawyer. He and his lawyer decided to not rush the prosecution, hoping for a better plea bargain deal. That dragged on, and on March 3rd, 2022, they filed a habeas corpus petition, demanding either indictment, or immediate release. trump argues that the accused have no rights to habeas corpus petitions, lawyers, or even to know what they have been accused of.

At that point the prosecution had three days to either release Denney, or to indict him. They presented their evidence to Denney, and his lawyer, and Denney agreed to plead guilty at the indictment and get 52 months.

I count four court hearings on Denney, and unknown number of lawyers visits. If any of the judges in those court hearings had set Denney free, he would be free.


T. A. Gardner said:
Just because you were born here doesn't necessarily make you a citizen if you lived out of the country the whole time you grew up and then claimed citizenship in a foreign nation.
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Funny there are people born in foreign countries who were adopted as Americans, and lived almost their entire lives in the USA, with no knowledge of or connection to the country they were born in, that get deported, and you are support that because of the technicality. When the technicality works the other way, you suddenly decide we should ignore the laws.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
The convention doesn't require that it be state armies.

Art 2
...
The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of
the territory of a High Contracting Party, even if the said occupation meets
with no armed resistance.
...
Art 3
In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in
the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict
shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions: ...
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terrorists are not a high contracting party either.
 
Scott said:
Unless there's a difference between Mexico allowing dual citizenship and recognizing it, it has recognized dual citizenship since 1998:
**
Is dual nationality allowed in Mexico?

Since 1998, the Mexican Nationality Law allows Mexicans to have another nationality in addition to their Mexican one.
**

Source:

Double Nationality

If you have another nationality in addition to Mexican nationality, this information is for you.
www.gob.mx www.gob.mx
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You are correct, I was mistaken. I believe I used to be correct, but now Mexico does allow dual citizenship.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Sorry about your condition, Terry, but you should know that it doesn't take a priest nor a Catholic to forgive someone.
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Seems yet another suicidal super ego in sociopsychopathilogical homicidal human farming survival of the fittest fascists schizophrenic human reproduction medical pseudoscience practices Islamidiotocracy Valhalla Christiananality pedophilia as the national religion of “one nation under God with equal justice under law”…….
 
Damocles said:
I think this may be the test case for Trump's "birthright citizenship" EO that supposedly cancels citizenship based on just being born here when the parents were here illegally...
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You might be right, but here is why I doubt it. They are picking up random people without any thought. If they wanted a test case, they would track down someone who they could prove had parents that were here illegally. They would go for an easy test case. It appears Lopez-Gomez's mother was here legally, and his father may have been a US citizen. Even if both claims are wrong, it would require a lot of investigation and legal questions to prove it.

For instance, trump's grandparents claimed they were from Sweden. That is a lie, so it could be claimed that they were illegal aliens. And then under trump's proposed interpretation, his father was not a US citizen, even though he was born in the USA, and in turn trump is not a US citizen even though he was born in the USA. But to use trump as a test case would involve proving that his grandparents lied back in 1905, and the whole cascading set of facts based on that. A test case would be much better if it were simple.
 
Truth Detector said:
Wrong. The key words are "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" which does not apply to non-citizens.

AMENDMENT XIV​

Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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If subject to the jurisdiction means what you claim it does then the US can't deport anyone since they are not subject to US jurisdiction so they can't be arrested, jailed or transported.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
If subject to the jurisdiction means what you claim it does then the US can't deport anyone since they are not subject to US jurisdiction so they can't be arrested, jailed or transported.
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Makes no difference to the Christian Nation Bicentennial of SCOTUS Fourth Reich July where US Fascists Masochists Federal Lynching KKKidnapping churchstate of hate drug trafficking fiefdom enforcement of “serve the Pope or die” maintains Christiananality pedophilia of those crooks on Capital Hill Christian Nation SCOTUS Rehnquist Federal Lynching KKKidnapping of a George Washington University Hospital Washington, D.C. born USA citizen for being Islam pseudoscience national mass neuroses of fascism religion as “one nation under God with no equal justice under law”…..
 
dancindave said:
Seems yet another suicidal super ego in sociopsychopathilogical homicidal human farming survival of the fittest fascists schizophrenic human reproduction medical pseudoscience practices Islamidiotocracy Valhalla Christiananality pedophilia as the national religion of “one nation under God with equal justice under law”…….
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To beary life, or the pale cast a bare bourns of thus pause. There's deat dreathe ills weath that is all; and may we know no take cast give us a sleep: perchance dothe spurn awry, thing after wills wrong, thus for no momethe heart-ache dothere's the quieturns the rub; for in than fly take calamity opposing end natural coil, and, but the dreams a consienter 'tis he what fles us pangs all; and the and the name of outly take and that the mind natural shocks that pith and sweat pale consience to sleep;
 
Lionfish said:
To beary life, or the pale cast a bare bourns of thus pause. There's deat dreathe ills weath that is all; and may we know no take cast give us a sleep: perchance dothe spurn awry, thing after wills wrong, thus for no momethe heart-ache dothere's the quieturns the rub; for in than fly take calamity opposing end natural coil, and, but the dreams a consienter 'tis he what fles us pangs all; and the and the name of outly take and that the mind natural shocks that pith and sweat pale consience to sleep;
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So the national religion of Christian Nation SCOTUS Rehnquist Christiananality pedophilia Federal Lynching KKKidnapping churchstate of hate drug trafficking fiefdom enforcement of thieving US Constitution arsonists with US Fascists Masochists Federal Lynching KKKidnapping churchstate of hate drug trafficking fiefdom enforcement of Christian Nation SCOTUS Rehnquist Bicentennial Fourth Reich July Federal Lynching KKKidnapping churchstate of hate drug trafficking fiefdom enforcement of George Washington University Hospital Washington, D.C. born USA citizens are Islam precedent of Christian Nation SCOTUS Rehnquist “what is 9/11 ?” rhetorical Freudian slip Federal Lynching KKKidnapping churchstate of once is an accident, twice is a coincidence as there are no coincidences while thrice is just business as usual for Christiananality pedophilia Islamidiotocracy….
 
EdwinA said:
Exceptf for Da Jooos though, right? lol go soak your head. And, 'born here' or not, undesirables have always been considered deportable.
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This is an excellently bogus position to be assigning to me. Add your name to the list of people who are predicting that birthright citizenship will be abolished, and I will mock you forever as it is never abolished.

In fact, I'll start now with you. You are obviously one of the gullibles who allowed himself to believe that, aside from diplomatic restrictions, someone born in the US is somehow not subject to the jurisdiction to the US. Too funny!

I'd ask you what it is about "Da Joos" that you are pushing, but most of the time you don't even understand your own gibberish in order to defend it.
 
Lionfish said:
To beary life, or the pale cast a bare bourns of thus pause. There's deat dreathe ills weath that is all; and may we know no take cast give us a sleep: perchance dothe spurn awry, thing after wills wrong, thus for no momethe heart-ache dothere's the quieturns the rub; for in than fly take calamity opposing end natural coil, and, but the dreams a consienter 'tis he what fles us pangs all; and the and the name of outly take and that the mind natural shocks that pith and sweat pale consience to sleep;
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HWÆT, WE GAR-DEna in geardagum,
þeodcyninga þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon!
oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas, syððanærest wearð
feasceaft funden; he þæs frofre gebad,
weox under wolcnum weorðmyndum þah,
oð þæt him æghwylc ymbsittendra
ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
gomban gyldan; þæt wæs god cyning!
Ðæm eafera wæs æfter cenned
geong in geardum, þone God sende
folce to frofre; fyrenðearfe ongeat,
þe hie ær drugon aldorlease
lange hwile; him þæs Liffrea,
wuldres Wealdend woroldare forgeaf,
Beowulf wæs breme --- blæd wide sprang---
Scyldes eafera Scedelandum in.
Swa sceal geong guma gode gewyrcean,
fromum feohgiftumon fæder bearme,
þæt hine on ylde eft gewunigen
wilgesiþas, þonne wig cume,
leode gelæsten; lofdædum sceal
in mægþa gehwære man geþeon.
Him ða Scyld gewat to gescæphwile
felahror feran on Frean wære;
hi hyne þa ætbæron to brimes faroðe,
swæse gesiþas, swa he selfa bæd,
þendenwordum weold wine Scyldinga---
leof landfruma lange ahte.
Þær æt hyðe stod hringedstefna
isig ond utfus, æþelingesfær;
aledon þa leofne þeoden,
beaga bryttan on bearm scipes,
mærne be mæste. Þær wæs madma fela
of feorwegum frætwa gelæded;
ne hyrde ic cymlicor ceol gegyrwan
hildewæpnum ond heaðowædum,
billum ond byrnum;him on bearme læg
madma mænigo, þa him mid scoldon
on flodes æht feor gewitan.
Nalæs hi hine læssan lacum teodan,
þeodgestreonum, þon þa dydon,
þe hine æt frumsceafte forð onsendon
ænne ofer yðe umborwesende.
 
Truth Detector said:
Wrong. The key words are "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" which does not apply to non-citizens.
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As soon as someone is born in the US, he is a citizen and subject to the jurisdiction thereof. You obviously didn't think this through.

All who are born in the US, unless diplomatic restrictions are at play (recognized diplomatic immunity), are subject to the jurisdiction of the US. If you would consider eliminating your conflation of "child" with "parents," you would see a clearer picture.
 
Walt said:
So we have a US born American citizen being held without trial.
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Nope. He was released. He has just cause to sue the State of Florida as well.
Walt said:
Everyone knows he is not an illegal alien, but illegal aliens do not have the right to question whether they are an illegal alien, so he cannot get free, even though he is not an illegal alien.

Fascism is, among other things, weird.
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Not fascism,Wally. Go figure what 'fascism' means.
Walt said:
www.yahoo.com

U.S.-born American citizen under ICE hold in Florida after driving from Georgia

Juan Carlos Gomez-Lopez is being held even though a county judge found his birth certificate “authentic” and said there wasn’t reason to consider him an “illegal alien.”
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
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Walt said:
A US born American citizen cannot get out of prison, even though he is found to be a US citizen, because illegal aliens have no rights, even though they are not illegal aliens... That is the system not working.

If he had been released, that would be the legal system working in the end. What is happening now is that he has no access to the legal system, because he is being held as an illegal alien, so he is not allowed to prove he is not an illegal alien.
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He is released, Wally. He also has grounds to sue the State of Florida.
 
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