4 key turning points in Western history

C

Cypress

Well-known member
According to Kenneth Harl, professor of history @ Tulane University, these are the four most important turning points in the history of western civilization:

1) Emergence of self-government (5th century BCE Greece).

2) Conversation of Europe to Christianity.

3) Discovery of the New World.

4) Industrial revolution.
 
Jack said:
Religious Quacks vs. FreeThinkers. The Cultural War rages on.
Someone talked about 'Forms of Government'. 'Military Dictatorships' was one. Another was 'Theocracies'.
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Best way to oppress a population: Tell them the Great Father in the Sky is mad at them.
 
BidenPresident said:
Add one. The Enlightenment. Rejection of Christian oppression.
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My guess is Professor Harl left it off his list, because he was highlighting truly transformational turning points in western history.


In a sense, Locke, Hobbes, and the French philosophes were just resurrecting ground which had already been covered before by the Greeks: political rights, political theory, and the nature of the rights of the citizen.

Also, the Enlightenment was just one in a long line of intellectual traditions: Humanism, Enlightenment, Romanticism, Transcendentalism, Existentialism. In that sense, it wasn't really a turning point, it was another cog in the wheel, another link in the chain.


I would say the French Revolution was transformational, but I wouldn't rank it up there with the industrial revolution, or the discovery of the Americas.
 
Cypress said:
My guess is Professor Harl left it off his list, because he was highlighting truly transformational turning points in western history.


In a sense, Locke, Hobbes, and the French philosophes were just resurrecting ground which had been covered before by the Greeks: political rights, political theory, and the nature of the rights of the citizen.

Also, the Enlightenment was just one in a long line of intellectual traditions: humanism, Enlightenment, Romanticism, Transcendentalism, Existentialism. In that sense, it wasn't really a turning point, it was another cog in the wheel, another link in the chain.


I would say the French Revolution was transformational, but I wouldn't rank it up there with the industrial revolution, or the discovery of the Americas.
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Enlightenment was Europe rejecting the authoritarianism of Christianity. Thank God.
 
BidenPresident said:
Enlightenment was Europe rejecting the authoritarianism of Christianity. Thank God.
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"When did the Catholic Church translated the Bible?
The Roman Catholic Church's reaction to the Anglican translations was to translate the New Testament in Rheims in 1578 and the Old Testament in Douay in 1609. Thus, the first Catholic translation was called the Douay-Rheims edition, and it too influenced the wording of the Protestants' King James Version.Jun 30, 2017

Early Bible translations — matters of life and death - The Jackson Sun'

I'm guessing there was a reason the Bible was in Latin and never translated into the local languages.
Probably like the Constitution in Latin ... and Trump would tell you what it said.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
"Oppression" might be too strong of a word. "Hegemony" definitely fits, though.
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"Why is Minerva so important?
Minerva is the goddess of wisdom, medicine, the arts, poetry, and handicrafts. Later in Roman history, she became the goddess of war as well. So, she was pretty important to the Romans. ... Combining aspects of both Menvra and Athena, Minerva grew to be one of the most respected goddesses in the Roman religion.

The Roman Goddess Minerva: Importance & Mythology"

'Christians' never had a 'Goddess of Wisdom'. NOT REALLY BIG ON THEIR LIST OF IMPORTANT SHIT.
 
What is enlightenment. Kant:

Enlightenment is man’s emergence from his self-imposed immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one’s
understanding without guidance from another. This immaturity is self-imposed when its cause lies not in lack of
understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it
without guidance from another. Sapere Aude! [dare to
know] “Have courage to use your own understanding!” —
that is the motto of enlightenment.

https://users.manchester.edu/Facstaff/SSNaragon/Online/texts/318/Kant, Enlightenment.pdf
 
Jack said:
"Why is Minerva so important?
Minerva is the goddess of wisdom, medicine, the arts, poetry, and handicrafts. Later in Roman history, she became the goddess of war as well. So, she was pretty important to the Romans. ... Combining aspects of both Menvra and Athena, Minerva grew to be one of the most respected goddesses in the Roman religion.

The Roman Goddess Minerva: Importance & Mythology"

'Christians' never had a 'Goddess of Wisdom'. NOT REALLY BIG ON THEIR LIST OF IMPORTANT SHIT.
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Christians had one God: Power. Oh, yeah, Jesus. He was also a nice guy.
 
Cypress said:
According to Kenneth Harl, professor of history @ Tulane University, these are the four most important turning points in the history of western civilization:

1) Emergence of self-government (5th century BCE Greece).

2) Conversation of Europe to Christianity.

3) Discovery of the New World.

4) Industrial revolution.
Click to expand...

Without the material wealth and relative political stability of America, I wonder how much longer the Industrial Revolution would have taken?
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Without the material wealth and relative political stability of America, I wonder how much longer the Industrial Revolution would have taken?
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"This process began in Britain in the 18th century and from there spread to other parts of the world. Although used earlier by French writers, the term Industrial Revolution was first popularized by the English economic historian Arnold Toynbee (1852–83) to describe Britain's economic development from 1760 to 1840.

Industrial Revolution | Definition, History, Dates, Summary ..."



This is the Period when the English Land Barons threw the Tenant Farmers off the Land they had Farmed for Generations in Favor of Sheep. (Wool, more profitable now)
(as a side note, the Tenant Farmers ended up in Cities, where they became Thieves, their Wives became Prostitutes, their Children became Pickpockets)
 
BidenPresident said:
Enlightenment was Europe rejecting the authoritarianism of Christianity. Thank God.
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No it wasn't. Most of the Enlightenment thinkers, from Locke, to Hobbes, to Ben Franklin, to Montesquieu were believing christians.

Church oppression largely ended between the late Middle Ages and the early Modern era because Churches had been made subordinate and subservient to the monarchy.

So what oppression there was in general in the 18th century, was actually political oppression carried out by the monarchy.

What pissed people off about the church leadership was the corruption and hypocrisy.

But atheism did not really account for itself very well during the Enlightenment. Once state atheism came to power in the French Revolution, that was when the Great Terror began - state sponsored terrorism and oppression on a scale that horrified people.

I would say atheism and rejection of the ecclesiastical authority of the Church really didn't happen until the late 19th and early 20th century in Europe. Especially in the wake of WW1.
 
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