BidenPresident
Verified User
Yes it was.
4 key turning points in Western history
- Thread starter Cypress
- Start date
Yes it was.
There are undoubtedly socio-economic reasons it came to England first, then United States and Germany. I have a book on the history of the industrial revolution on my pick list, so I am going to investigate it in greater detail.
Yes, we had the first amendment in the US Constitution that separated church and state, but the OP refers to western history, not United States history. State churches existed throughout Europe through the 19th century and into the 20th.
BidenPresident
Verified User
I never said anything about the US.
There is a Lesson to be Learned from the Industrial Revolution.
'Machines affecting Human Jobs' (like Tenant Farming). 'Humans losing their Ability to Feed their Families' (like Serfs being forced off their Traditional Livelihood)
--->'Automation Revolution'. It's here. Now.
'Machines affecting Human Jobs' (like Tenant Farming). 'Humans losing their Ability to Feed their Families' (like Serfs being forced off their Traditional Livelihood)
--->'Automation Revolution'. It's here. Now.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
I would ask Mr. Owl (he majored in industrial engineering and loves everything machine or computer and history-related). But he's watching hideous plane crashes right now. lol
It's not too complex. This guy:
"Sir Thomas More (7 February 1478 – 6 July 1535), venerated in the Catholic Church as Saint Thomas More, was an English lawyer, judge, social philosopher, author, statesman, and noted Renaissance humanist. He also served Henry VIII as Lord High Chancellor of England from October 1529 to May 1532.
Died: 6 July 1535 (aged 57); Tower Hill, Londo...
Monarch: Henry VIII
Born: 7 February 1478; City of London, England
Thomas More - Wikipedia"
... wrote about Hanging 20 people a day for being 'Thieves'.
So you agree that national State Churches were the norm in Europe, long after the Enlightenment, and well into the 19th and 20th centuries
BidenPresident
Verified User
can't say I even care. That's your issue.
I know the German sociologist Max Weber made a case that industrial capitalism came first and foremost to England, Netherlands, Germany, United States in part because of Protestantism, which as a sect of Christianity does promote a focus on productive works in this world and the accumulation of wealth.
Not only were national State Churches the norm in Europe in the 19th century, long after the Enlightenment Age, but there was still widespread religious discrimination for those who didn't conform to the State church.
Catholics couldn't be accepted into Cambridge university until the 1870s. You basically had to be a member of the State Anglican church.
Soren Kierkegaard in the 1870s famously implied that you were basically a social outcast in Denmark if you weren't a member of the Danish state Lutheran church.
I doubt Protestants could advance in the social and economic pecking order of Catholic Italy and Spain in the 19th century.
The Enlightenment Age did far less than you think in eroding ecclesiastical authority in Europe.
In fact, I think what really eroded ecclesiastical authority and tradition in the West was the new liberalism of the late 19th and 20th century.
Cypress. I have a Question. Do you think we are going through another 'Industrial Revolution'? Something that will transform Human Labor? Let's just call it the 'Automation Revolution'.
If you were able to learn something from the Industrial Revolution and the effects on the Working Class, what would you recommend for the 'Automation Revolution'. The one we are in now. The one that will continue.
Macroeconomics and globalization are not my strong suit, so I do not have any brilliant insights into the question.
OK. I was trying to frame this as an 'Immigration' question. As 'automation' takes over many Human jobs, and Humans are thrown out of their Traditional jobs, do you see adding more people into the 'shrinking Jobs for Humans' market as problematic?
Note: Others have told me that the displaced people should just re-train to 'Robot Repairman'. I was hoping you might have a different opinion.
I think retraining to go from working on an auto assembly line, to building solar panels or wind turbines sounds like a reasonable expectation.
Asking people to give up their steel mill jobs to work in Walmart only benefits the oligarchs.
The other thing I realized is our conception of the Enlightenment is colored by our historical bias as offspring of Anglo-saxon culture.
The Enlightenment was primarily a phenomena in France, Britain, and to a lesser extent Germany.
It did not really reach very deeply into Mediterranean Europe, Eastern Europe, the Balkans, or Iberian peninsula.
BidenPresident
Verified User
It really bothers you that everyone is not obsessed with religion like you.
It angers you when I state simple facts that are widely available to anyone who cares to read about it.
The 18th century Enlightenment was largely a regional cultural phenomena limited to France, Britain, and parts of Germany.
It really did not penetrate deeply into the rest of Europe, despite the vaunted and mythic reputation the enlightenment age has acquired on message boards.
If I had to pick a historical phenomena from the early modern era that truly had European-wide profound implications, I would pick the French Revolution.
It was the European seed of nationalism, socialism, democratic principles, universal natural rights. And it's influence was deeply felt not only in western Europe, but in Russia, the Balkans, central Europe, and the Mediterranean.
BidenPresident
Verified User
You are childish. I probably should ignore you.
BidenPresident
Verified User
Thank God the obsession and authoritarianism of religion was overthrown by the Enlightenment. Reactionaries like Cypress would put Galileo to death.