63 years ago today

[Little-Acorn]

Sixty-three years ago today, on August 5, 1945, the first atomic bomb used in warfare was dropped on the city of Hiroshima, Japan. Hiroshima was a key shipping port, containing several major army control centers and large depots of war supplies, along with its civilian population. 3/4 of the city was destroyed, and 80,000 people killed, by one airplane carrying one bomb. It was almost as many as were killed in the earlier (conventional) incendiary raids on Tokyo by hundreds of aircraft carrying thousands of bombs.

A direct result of the atomic bombing, and another three days later on Nagasaki, was the Japanese government's decision to surrender immediately rather than fight to the last man on island after island. As such, the atomic bomb saved millions of American and Japanese lives, far more than were killed in the bombings.

 

[DigitalDave]

..... and that's how Sakio Japan got into the Mall Food Court.

 

[charver]

I always thought Hiroshima was bombed on August 6th.

 

[Damocles]

Yup, August 6th was when Little Boy was dropped on Hiroshima. Then about 3 hours later Fat Boy on Nagasaki.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Sixty-three years ago today, on August 5, 1945, the first atomic bomb used in warfare was dropped on the city of Hiroshima, Japan. Hiroshima was a key shipping port, containing several major army control centers and large depots of war supplies, along with its civilian population. 3/4 of the city was destroyed, and 80,000 people killed, by one airplane carrying one bomb. It was almost as many as were killed in the earlier (conventional) incendiary raids on Tokyo by hundreds of aircraft carrying thousands of bombs.

A direct result of the atomic bombing, and another three days later on Nagasaki, was the Japanese government's decision to surrender immediately rather than fight to the last man on island after island. As such, the atomic bomb saved millions of American and Japanese lives, far more than were killed in the bombings.

At the time of the bombing there were only three people left in the government who refused unconditional surrender (they would have still went with conditional), but unfortunately the crazy Japanese system required unanimity to end a war.

It's possible that the mere threat of a real invasion would have scared them off but that's a big if. It's true that the bomb saved million of American and Japanese lives over a real invasion if those ridiculous men still refused to give up.

 

[Onceler]

I still find what we did incredibly immoral & unacceptable. It's a dark part of our history, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Epicurus]

It was a choice that is easy to sit back and criticize in hindsight, but I respect that they did what they did to save American lives.

 

[NOVA]

I still find what we did incredibly immoral & unacceptable. It's a dark part of our history, as far as I'm concerned.

Alot of far left socialist/communist ignorant dirtbags would agree with you...
Patriots would not...

 

[Onceler]

Alot of far left socialist/communist ignorant dirtbags would agree with you...
Patriots would not...

We drop a bomb that indiscriimately kills thousands of women & children indiscriminately, and I'm the "dirtbag."

I think we have a very different idea of what constitutes "patriotism", bravo. Saw that you bailed quickly on the "RAND" thread, btw...

 

[Cancel7]

I still find what we did incredibly immoral & unacceptable. It's a dark part of our history, as far as I'm concerned.

Really? I didn’t know you held that opinion.

 

[Onceler]

Really? I didn’t know you held that opinion.

Yeah; I think it's become too accepted that "we had to do it." It wouldn't be accepted today, and I don't accept it then. Dropping an atomic bomb on a city is a truly horrific thing to do; civilians should never be intentionally targeted in warfare.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Yup, August 6th was when Little Boy was dropped on Hiroshima. Then about 3 hours later Fat Boy on Nagasaki.

Um.... you mean 3 days later for Fat Boy.

Side note.... just because I do not know... wasn't it dropped on the morning of August 6th in Japan? Could it still have been August 5th in the US?

 

[Cancel7]

Yeah; I think it's become too accepted that "we had to do it." It wouldn't be accepted today, and I don't accept it then. Dropping an atomic bomb on a city is a truly horrific thing to do; civilians should never be intentionally targeted in warfare.

I agree, but it’s usually dismissed as a “far-left” viewpoint, which I don’t expect from you. But, I shouldn’t buy into that, it’s really not a far-left view.

 

[Onceler]

I agree, but it’s usually dismissed as a “far-left” viewpoint, which I don’t expect from you. But, I shouldn’t buy into that, it’s really not a far-left view.

Well, I do have SOME far leftie in me, though you're right - I'm more of a moderate overall. Still, I can be pretty radical on stuff like this & environmental issues.

And I agree - I think something like this is the kind of issue that might get agreement from a broad spectrum of political affiliation, because at its heart, it's a moral issue, but I rarely hear people say they disagree with the decision.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

We drop a bomb that indiscriimately kills thousands of women & children indiscriminately, and I'm the "dirtbag."

I think we have a very different idea of what constitutes "patriotism", bravo. Saw that you bailed quickly on the "RAND" thread, btw...

Women and children were killed indiscriminately a lot in WWII. The Tokyo bombing campaign a week before the bombs were dropped killed as many people as the bombs themselves.

I really have to ask myself, what was so bad about a conditional surrender? Was an unconditional surrender, so that we could hang a few people, really worth hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths at our hands?

 

[Epicurus]

It's a valid question to ask, but like I said it's easy to criticize their choice in hindsight. Personally I think conditional surrender would have been fine.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Women and children were killed indiscriminately a lot in WWII. The Tokyo bombing campaign a week before the bombs were dropped killed as many people as the bombs themselves.

I really have to ask myself, what was so bad about a conditional surrender? Was an unconditional surrender, so that we could hang a few people, really worth hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths at our hands?

I don't think there would have been much wrong with a conditional surrender. But I believe the attack on Pearl Harbor and the atrocities the Japanese committed in China/Asia added to their stubborness on the issue.

I would agree that deliberately targeting civilians is not acceptable. But I can also see why they made the choice they did. I also believe they did not fully understand what they were unleashing, at least in terms of the effects on the "survivors" of the blast.

 

[Cancel7]

Women and children were killed indiscriminately a lot in WWII. The Tokyo bombing campaign a week before the bombs were dropped killed as many people as the bombs themselves.

I really have to ask myself, what was so bad about a conditional surrender? Was an unconditional surrender, so that we could hang a few people, really worth hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths at our hands?

Some historians argue that Truman wanted to send a message to the Soviet Union. That in fact, dropping the bomb had nothing to do with Japan. We can’t be in his mind, but if true, it was a heinous and indefensible act.

 

[Epicurus]

Some historians argue that Truman wanted to send a message to the Soviet Union. That in fact, dropping the bomb had nothing to do with Japan. We can’t be in his mind, but if true, it was a heinous and indefensible act.

Yeah I've heard that too which is what makes me take the "We would have lost a million men!" argument with a grain of salt.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I think even if "send a message to the soviet union" wasn't his primary reason, it had a hell of a lot to do with it, and it could've been the tipping point of the argument for dropping the bomb in the mind of a lot of warmongering fools.

War dulls your senses. Even if it would've been reasonable to not drop the bomb, it's just human nature that no one would want to look weak in accepting a conditional surrender. Even if it was the right thing to do. That is, ironically, a human weakness in itself: we often avoid the softer option just because we don't want to look weak, even if it is the more reasonable one.