63 years ago today

Honestly, before we dropped in on a population center we should have invited a delegation from Japan to come to the desert here in NM and watch the test. After it went off, we should have said we have more of those if you don't surrender. Only after that should we have dropped it on cities.
 
americans shouldn't of bombed the japanese thats one reason of have a deep since of repugnance and hatred for the americans
 
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Some historians argue that Truman wanted to send a message to the Soviet Union. That in fact, dropping the bomb had nothing to do with Japan. We can’t be in his mind, but if true, it was a heinous and indefensible act.
I believe this is in part true.
 
On the one hand I understand that what we did was reprehensible.

But on the other hand, if you attack someone and kill thousands of their people in a sneak attack, commit the atrocities that Japan commited against prisoners of war, perpetrate the horrors they did against Nanking, its kind of hard to see them as victims of overkill in a war.
 
On the one hand I understand that what we did was reprehensible.

But on the other hand, if you attack someone and kill thousands of their people in a sneak attack, commit the atrocities that Japan commited against prisoners of war, perpetrate the horrors they did against Nanking, its kind of hard to see them as victims of overkill in a war.

I'm very sorry, when was it that the women and children of Nagasaki and Hiroshima participated in these war cabinet meetings that decided this? I had no idea their war cabinet was so large.

It's the difference between conservatives and liberals. You guys see people as units and we see them as individuals.
 
Funny, in the name of "diversity", the liberals are perfectly willing to label people by race and gender.

When nations go to war, they do so on behalf of ALL of their citizens. When the Empire of Japan attacked the US (while pressing peace talks in Washington), THEY put the lives of the women and children on the line.

When they attacked Pearl Harbor and willingly started a war with the USA, they did not do so on behalf of their military. They did so on behalf of their entire nation. They started a war with another nation. So place the blame squarely at the feet of the emperor and his military advisors.
 
Threedee is an excellent example of how college teaches you nothing.

Threedee is an excellent example of someone who is going to be caught with various female body parts rotting in his basement someday, and become a case study for the Behavioral Science Dept at the FBI.

Wow, I'm confused here. Someone is clearly struggling in college and someone is clearly a bitch, but I think I may have confused the two somehow. It must be the similarities that have caused the dis-similarities, kind of like what Piaget called disequalibrium. More schema with new schemata to follow. Or is it all bullshit with nothing useful for us to take away from it all???
 
Wow, I'm confused here. Someone is clearly struggling in college and someone is clearly a bitch, but I think I may have confused the two somehow. It must be the similarities that have caused the dis-similarities, kind of like what Piaget called disequalibrium. More schema with new schemata to follow. Or is it all bullshit with nothing useful for us to take away from it all???

She meant Thorni.
 
Piaget? If ever there was a scientist who performed UNscientific experiments, it was Piaget.

Wasn't he the behavioral scientist that observed his own children as part of his research? Kinda hard to claim that is scientific.
 
Funny, in the name of "diversity", the liberals are perfectly willing to label people by race and gender.

When nations go to war, they do so on behalf of ALL of their citizens. When the Empire of Japan attacked the US (while pressing peace talks in Washington), THEY put the lives of the women and children on the line.

When they attacked Pearl Harbor and willingly started a war with the USA, they did not do so on behalf of their military. They did so on behalf of their entire nation. They started a war with another nation. So place the blame squarely at the feet of the emperor and his military advisors.

That's some pretty convoluted logic there.

Here's an idea that's a little more simple: in war, you never intentionally target innocent civilians.

Do you agree with that principle, or do you think innocent civilians SHOULD be targetted if it helps us achieve our ultimate objectives?
 
That's some pretty convoluted logic there.

Here's an idea that's a little more simple: in war, you never intentionally target innocent civilians.

Do you agree with that principle, or do you think innocent civilians SHOULD be targetted if it helps us achieve our ultimate objectives?
Civilians were not deliberately targeted.

1. Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets. The military value of the targets has been listed hundreds of times in hundreds of these types of conversations. The military aspects of the cities were numerous and scattered throughout the area, making hitting all of them in traditional bombing missions difficult and expensive. (Militarily expensive, not dollars expensive.)

2. The destructive radius of the bombs were not known. We knew they were powerful, but to that date we had only ONE test firing of a nuclear weapon, and we were far more interested in whether it worked or not than closely measuring destructive power. And the test device was smaller. They did not know how much more destructive little boy would be compared to the test device, nor did we know how much more destructive Fat Man would be over Little Boy.

3. While deliberately targeting civilians was and is considered unacceptable (though all members of the Axis powers did so themselves) the death of civilians in military targeted bombing raids was considered (and still is) an unfortunate but unavoidable side effect of modern warfare. The target of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the military-industrial complexes and associated transportation facilities. The ability to hit them all at once from a single plane was considered and enormous advantage.

5. Had the war continued even 6 more months, traditional bombing raids would have ended up killing at least as many civilians (without "deliberately targeting civilians" as the brain dead like to claim) and probably twice that many in the artillery and bombing barrages that would have been conducted in an invasion assault.

6. While hindsight is 20/20, it is rarely accurate in accounting for the knowledge (or lack thereof) at the time being criticized. Information received from Japan AFTER the end of the war indicated that other strategies, such as using bombers to drop mines to close Japanese ports and destroy Japanese shipping would have been more effective than bombing their industrial complex. But we did not know that at the time. Bombing Germany's industrial complex had been critically successful in the European theater, so the same was used against Japan. With all we know today, including the horrific after effects of a nuclear strike. we probably would not have used nuclear weapons against Japan. But the critical factor is WE DID NOT KNOW what we do know today. By what was known at the time, including the estimate (since proven inaccurate - but again not known at the time) that the only alternative was an invasion of the Japanese homeland, the use of nuclear bombs was considered the best alternative we had available to us at that time.

Was it a mistake? Yes, in retrospect, other options would have been as effective in bringing an end to the war.

Was it "reprehensible"? No, not when one considers the knowledge and military estimates available at the time the decision was made.
 
Piaget? If ever there was a scientist who performed UNscientific experiments, it was Piaget.

Wasn't he the behavioral scientist that observed his own children as part of his research? Kinda hard to claim that is scientific.
In the late 20's, because he was just starting out and had no overhead, but by the 50's he was conducting some huge research with lots of cases.
 
Oh Gosh, I ‘m sorry, I did it again! This is what I think about Thor, not threedee, why do I keep doing this? Sorry!
But seriously, this is thor/brent, whatever you call that freak.

Oh, now I see what Water was going on about... Whoops. Well, this is far more condecending than being called a bitch, but I guess we're even regardless...
 
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