Abortion

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Which women who post here identify as Libertarian? I am just curious because they are the rarest of all species.

I think Annie pretty much identifies as Libertarian, whether she has stated it publicly, I don't know. I realize you Libtards think of her as a NEOCON right-winger, but that's basically everyone to the right of Chairman Mao.

 

[apple0154]

Let me also take this opportunity to interject a disclaimer here... I have not said that I oppose any and all abortion. I will even go so far as to say, if a measure to outlaw all abortion in America were to ever be on the ballot, I would have to vote against it. Of course, I am not fat or an old racist, so maybe that has something to do with it?

My argument has mainly been with Apple, over the basic biological fact of when an organism exists. We first have to agree on basic biological facts before we can reasonably have a debate about abortion. It has to be recognized we're talking about human life, not something superficial or a meaningless clump of cells. From that point, we can have a rational debate over when it's ethical or moral to terminate human life, and I have no problem engaging in that debate. But we're not there yet, we have to educate the idiots of the world first, on basic 6th grade biology.

The Dude wants to continue being an antagonistic troll on the subject, opting to hurl pejoratives and insults at people he doesn't know.... Very un-Dude like, as Walter would say. Some pinhead chortled that he read The Dude's posts in Jeff Bridges voice, as if it were really "The Dude" speaking, but I don't comprehend how he gets that... to me, he sounds like a belligerent obnoxious drunk in a bar, trying to get the last flurry of insults in.

Of course you would. What else would we expect from a sexist hypocrite? No doubt you'd like to see abortion sanctioned on a case by case basis. That way men like you could get up close and personal with every case. Under the pretext of caring for a human life you'd dangle that carrot, the off-chance an abortion may be granted, resulting in hearing the intimate details of who was involved in the pregnancy and how it will affect the woman and why she wants an abortion and all the salacious details as she pleads her case. Shove your nose as deep into her crotch as you could. Have men preside over her like she's some slave girl, humiliate and make her suffer for the sin of sex while the group of men sitting behind the foul smelling "Judge's Abortion Bench" whack off while listening to her testimony.

You'd be in paradise, wouldn't you, Dixie? Well, I got news for you. It ain't gonna happen so pick up a Playboy and make up another fantasy. You and all those other hairy-palmed Conservatives are not going to interfere in the sex lives of not only woman but men whom those ladies bless with their smooth, round, fragrant bodies. Their passionate embraces. Their steaming kisses. Their legs wrapped tightly around their partner's body emitting sounds not all that different from the purring of a cat.

I don't know if you have a personal story to tell or your religious upbringing bears responsibility but you have to throw away your misconceptions and learn. With all the strife and animosity and conflict in the world why would anyone want to put conditions or restrictions or, in any way, interfere with the most beautiful human expression, sex? Rejoice in it. Grab it with both hands, literally! I guarantee you'll feel much better but I must warn you it will change your outlook on the world. You just may actually start caring about people.

 

[apple0154]

It's nothing anywhere near the same, according to you. Does her liver have it's own genes who she sends instructions to? Is her liver female or male? More importantly, will her liver ever develop a nervous system, brain, heart, lungs, etc.? Will it have it's own unique DNA or blood type? As we see, from your own arguments as well as points I have raised, the liver is nothing at all like a fetus.

Are you drunk? Yes, Dix, the liver has genes. Yes, Dix, the liver has DNA. Yes, Dix, the liver may have unique DNA. Have you already forgotten about the biological children who were taken from their mother precisely because some azzholes didn't understand a person may have a liver or other organ that possesses unique DNA?

I really don't know why I continue debating this with you. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Again, the fact that it has these needs at this stage of life, doesn't negate the fact it is life. You've once again refuted your own argument and proven the fetus is a living human organism. It's becoming quite routine, every time you open your trap to try and "explain" it seems you are just proving yourself wrong even more. You've so contradicted your own argument, that it's downright funny at this point. Do you realize how much of a fool you are looking like here? I doubt it.

It is alive. That's all. It is no more alive or independent than a liver.

I suggest if you have any closing arguments you make them soon as this is becoming redundant. You have no idea what you're talking about and you refuse to learn even though I direct you to educational videos.

 

[apple0154]

And this is where you are incorrect. You see, they ARE dependent on the internal functions of another human being, before birth. It's a stage of everyone's life process, you and I were both dependent on our mother at one point in our life. After we were born, for a number of years, we were dependent on another human being, their time and energy was devoted to changing our diapers and disposing our waste, feeding us and nurturing us until we were able to do these things for ourselves. At no point, does this change who we are or what we are. You keep trying to apply this criteria, and it simply doesn't apply.

I'll dumb it down for you. If your mother died when "you" were age "conception plus five months" would you have lived? If your mother died when you were age "birth plus five months" would you have lived? I can't make it any more simple than that.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

I think Annie pretty much identifies as Libertarian, whether she has stated it publicly, I don't know. I realize you Libtards think of her as a NEOCON right-winger, but that's basically everyone to the right of Chairman Mao.

Oh that could be. I identified her as an abrasive moron years ago and don't read her much.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
You're babbling, STY.....essentially you have NO logical response to the the TRUTH of my statement. Forcing a woman to to complete an unwanted pregnancy is PRECISELY what anti-abortionist are advocating....THAT is in direct contradiction to the neocon/teabagger/libertarian lunkhead credo of voiding the federal gov't mandates as much as possible from their private lives and decisions.

Grow up and deal with it, STY....you guys have once again painted yourselves into a corner.

and once again you make yourself look like a total dumbass by lumping in all others not like you as one single group, especially given the fact that I am pro choice. Essentially you have no answer for a very accurate portrayal of your idiocy as it concerns the rights of everyone, so grow up and deal with it. you'd save yourself alot of grief by just coming out and saying that you don't care about the constitutional rights of anyone but yourself.

All one has to do is follow the chronology of the post to see my train of thought is accurate in response to the babblings of you and others like you. You're grinding a personal axe against me blinds you to the sheer stupidity of your response. The Dixie Dunce cannot refute what I say. If you're in agreement with me, you need to learn how to articulate that better. So if you've got nothing else but venom to spew, then I'd say we're done.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Of course you would. What else would we expect from a sexist hypocrite? No doubt you'd like to see abortion sanctioned on a case by case basis. That way men like you could get up close and personal with every case. Under the pretext of caring for a human life you'd dangle that carrot, the off-chance an abortion may be granted, resulting in hearing the intimate details of who was involved in the pregnancy and how it will affect the woman and why she wants an abortion and all the salacious details as she pleads her case. Shove your nose as deep into her crotch as you could. Have men preside over her like she's some slave girl, humiliate and make her suffer for the sin of sex while the group of men sitting behind the foul smelling "Judge's Abortion Bench" whack off while listening to her testimony.

What you are doing now, is making a lot of false presumptions about someone you simply don't know. That is called being a BIGOT, in case you didn't know. I stated the following: If a measure to outlaw all abortion in America were to ever be on the ballot, I would have to vote against it. From that, you surmised that I want to have "abortion judges" determining things from the bench on a case by case basis, and I never said any such thing.

I don't want to humiliate anyone or make them a slave girl. I don't want to punish people for having sex. These are all memes you've adopted to portray me as unreasonable, when you are the only one being unreasonable. You don't even want to admit the fetus is an organism, much less a human organism which, at some point, should be afforded constitutional protection of it's right to live.

Again.... MY position does not favor an all-out ban on abortion, and I would never support such a proposal. I believe there are circumstances where abortion should be a viable option, and people should be free to choose it. I would never choose it, but the option should be there for those who might. I am opposed to most abortions after the first trimester, unless there is a compelling reason, like the fetus is going to be deformed or retarded, or the risk to the health of the mother is an issue. Again, I would personally never choose the abortion option in this case, but I respect the rights of others to make their own decision. Where I draw the line, is using abortion as birth control, for the sake of vanity and convenience, partial birth abortions, late trimester abortions, etc. I don't think women should automatically have the "choice" to kill another human being. I'm sorry if that doesn't make me cool with the women, or that you feel like it makes you a stud with the women, I can't support infanticide. I'm never going to support it, nor are my children or grandchildren. So you can fantasize about all us pro-lifers dying off and you degenerate liberals get to do whatever the fuck you please, but I am here to tell you, at least for the next three generations, that won't be the case.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I'll dumb it down for you. If your mother died when "you" were age "conception plus five months" would you have lived? If your mother died when you were age "birth plus five months" would you have lived? I can't make it any more simple than that.

I don't know, it depends on circumstances. If my mother died when I was 5 months old, and she was a single parent raising me by herself, and we lived together in her small apartment, I might die before anyone found her corpse, because I am too young to care for myself at that point. If my mother were 5 months pregnant with me and was in a terrible car crash, it's possible I could be delivered prematurely and live, even if my mother died. Both of your scenarios are totally dependent on circumstances, and since we have no way of knowing the circumstances of any hypothetical, you've not proven your point. AGAIN!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Are you drunk? Yes, Dix, the liver has genes. Yes, Dix, the liver has DNA. Yes, Dix, the liver may have unique DNA.

The liver does have genes, but the genes are of the organism the liver belongs to. DNA has already been discarded in this debate by you, we can't go run back to DNA as some kind of 'proof' for some point you're now trying to make. Unless it's a freak and bizarre thing, the liver of any organism shares the same DNA as the organism itself. Yes, there are rare cases where this is not the case, but it never determines whether something is a living organism or not. A liver isn't a living organism, it is an organ inside an organism. A liver does not reproduce its own cells, the organism which hosts the liver is responsible for that. Livers don't reproduce themselves, they are procreated by the organism, and NEVER EVER come into existence any other way.

 

[Taichiliberal]

What you are doing now, is making a lot of false presumptions about someone you simply don't know. That is called being a BIGOT, in case you didn't know. I stated the following: If a measure to outlaw all abortion in America were to ever be on the ballot, I would have to vote against it. From that, you surmised that I want to have "abortion judges" determining things from the bench on a case by case basis, and I never said any such thing.

I don't want to humiliate anyone or make them a slave girl. I don't want to punish people for having sex. These are all memes you've adopted to portray me as unreasonable, when you are the only one being unreasonable. You don't even want to admit the fetus is an organism, much less a human organism which, at some point, should be afforded constitutional protection of it's right to live.

Again.... MY position does not favor an all-out ban on abortion, and I would never support such a proposal. I believe there are circumstances where abortion should be a viable option, and people should be free to choose it. I would never choose it, but the option should be there for those who might. I am opposed to most abortions after the first trimester, unless there is a compelling reason, like the fetus is going to be deformed or retarded, or the risk to the health of the mother is an issue. Again, I would personally never choose the abortion option in this case, but I respect the rights of others to make their own decision. Where I draw the line, is using abortion as birth control, for the sake of vanity and convenience, partial birth abortions, late trimester abortions, etc. I don't think women should automatically have the "choice" to kill another human being. I'm sorry if that doesn't make me cool with the women, or that you feel like it makes you a stud with the women, I can't support infanticide. I'm never going to support it, nor are my children or grandchildren. So you can fantasize about all us pro-lifers dying off and you degenerate liberals get to do whatever the fuck you please, but I am here to tell you, at least for the next three generations, that won't be the case.

The Dixie Dunce rides again! Here's the core of Dixie's stupidity:

"...I am opposed to most abortions after the first trimester, unless there is a compelling reason, like the fetus is going to be deformed or retarded, or the risk to the health of the mother is an issue. Again, I would personally never choose the abortion option in this case, but I respect the rights of others to make their own decision. Where I draw the line, is using abortion as birth control, for the sake of vanity and convenience, partial birth abortions, late trimester abortions, etc. I don't think women should automatically have the "choice" to kill another human being."

Well toodles, late trimester and partial abortions have been banned with the exception of cases were the woman's life is in danger.....and to date the only way creeps like you can determine that abortion is used as birth control is for some type of gov't ruling that allows states to appoint "investigators" to get between the doctor and patient and make a "ruling".

So much for dimbulbs who are always griping about "nanny states" and "intrusive communist" gov't.

Essentially, the Dixie Dunce is just trotting out tired, disproven straw men in an never ending quest to justify enforcing their personal ideology onto women in the most personal of ways.

No one is buying your BS, Dixie....except maybe you.

 

[apple0154]

The Dixie Dunce rides again! Here's the core of Dixie's stupidity:

"...I am opposed to most abortions after the first trimester, unless there is a compelling reason, like the fetus is going to be deformed or retarded, or the risk to the health of the mother is an issue. Again, I would personally never choose the abortion option in this case, but I respect the rights of others to make their own decision. Where I draw the line, is using abortion as birth control, for the sake of vanity and convenience, partial birth abortions, late trimester abortions, etc. I don't think women should automatically have the "choice" to kill another human being."

Well toodles, late trimester and partial abortions have been banned with the exception of cases were the woman's life is in danger.....and to date the only way creeps like you can determine that abortion is used as birth control is for some type of gov't ruling that allows states to appoint "investigators" to get between the doctor and patient and make a "ruling".

So much for dimbulbs who are always griping about "nanny states" and "intrusive communist" gov't.

Essentially, the Dixie Dunce is just trotting out tired, disproven straw men in an never ending quest to justify enforcing their personal ideology onto women in the most personal of ways.

No one is buying your BS, Dixie....except maybe you.

Probes inserted in the vagina. Compulsory viewing of the fetus. The anti-abortionist perversion knows no bounds.

 

[apple0154]

To Dixie and other interested folks. I always hear about the responsibilities and consequences of ones actions when the discussion turns to sex/abortion. For many, sex is viewed as an activity that holds no intrinsic value other than procreation. In other words it's viewed as something that's completely optional so an unwanted pregnancy is viewed as a justifiable consequence, a consequence to be accepted.

If someone suffered a car accident while commuting no one would say, "Well, a simple solution is do not drive to work. It's your own fault you took a job that requires a car to get to work."

The consequences of driving to work would be mitigated as much as possible. No one HAS TO drive to work but we understand that by wanting a home in the suburbs and a nice place to raise children and have a job in the city that pays for that home we empathize with the person that had an accident. We don't say, "Well, that's the consequences. Tough luck."

That is the disconnect many people have when considering sex/abortion. To them an unwanted pregnancy is the person's fault for having sex. They are unable to understand the necessity for having sex and the following video, 60 secs, explains it. Take 60 seconds out of your day and have a listen. The lady sums it up beautifully and perfectly.

Here's a one minute comment by Eve Ensler. Eve Ensler is a Tony award-winning playwright, performer and activist. She is the author of The Vagina Monologues, which has been published in 48 languages and performed in over 140 countries.

http://www.makers.com/eve-ensler/moments/celebrating-sex

 

[Phantasmal]

To Dixie and other interested folks. I always hear about the responsibilities and consequences of ones actions when the discussion turns to sex/abortion. For many, sex is viewed as an activity that holds no intrinsic value other than procreation. In other words it's viewed as something that's completely optional so an unwanted pregnancy is viewed as a justifiable consequence, a consequence to be accepted.

If someone suffered a car accident while commuting no one would say, "Well, a simple solution is do not drive to work. It's your own fault you took a job that requires a car to get to work."

The consequences of driving to work would be mitigated as much as possible. No one HAS TO drive to work but we understand that by wanting a home in the suburbs and a nice place to raise children and have a job in the city that pays for that home we empathize with the person that had an accident. We don't say, "Well, that's the consequences. Tough luck."

That is the disconnect many people have when considering sex/abortion. To them an unwanted pregnancy is the person's fault for having sex. They are unable to understand the necessity for having sex and the following video, 60 secs, explains it. Take 60 seconds out of your day and have a listen. The lady sums it up beautifully and perfectly.

Here's a one minute comment by Eve Ensler. Eve Ensler is a Tony award-winning playwright, performer and activist. She is the author of The Vagina Monologues, which has been published in 48 languages and performed in over 140 countries.

http://www.makers.com/eve-ensler/moments/celebrating-sex

I was reading an article today that stated god must approve of abortions because Christians and others have been praying for over 40 years or the end of the practice and it has not happened, so I was thinking it must be like the slaughter of the pagan nations by the Israelites, patriot once stated that God killed the children of the agans to stop future evil, maybe, this is why God allows abortion and doesn't answers billions of prayers to end it.

 

[apple0154]

I was reading an article today that stated god must approve of abortions because Christians and others have been praying for over 40 years or the end of the practice and it has not happened, so I was thinking it must be like the slaughter of the pagan nations by the Israelites, patriot once stated that God killed the children of the agans to stop future evil, maybe, this is why God allows abortion and doesn't answers billions of prayers to end it.

Sounds reasonable from what I've heard about religion. :lol:

I found Ms. Ensler summed it up so accurately especially the part where she said how tainted and demonized and how people feel about it when they should feel fantastic that they get to connect with their bodies. As I've said before our society has mocked and ridiculed and belittled sex to the point it's either a running joke or something dirty.

Well, to hell with them! Let them be miserable. The Bible makes it clear women were/are God's gift to man and I can't think of a greater gift. Anyone who tries to put consequences on enjoying God's gift can go to Hell.

I feel better now.

I'll add the caveat I am not condoning jumping into bed with everyone who walks by just as one would not invite strangers to dinner. Sex is a special link between people and it is meant to be enjoyed. (I thought I better add that before I get a bad reputation.)

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

That is the disconnect many people have when considering sex/abortion. To them an unwanted pregnancy is the person's fault for having sex. They are unable to understand the necessity for having sex and the following video, 60 secs, explains it.

Another goddamn video? WTF? Are you working for YouTube now?

I don't need to watch a video to know that sexual relations are NOT A NECESSITY! It's nothing like "going to work" unless you happen to be a porn star. Speaking of porn stars, here are people who's job is to have sex, but oh my goodness, we aren't inundated with pregnant porn stars, are we? Nope, because there are ways to have sex and avoid becoming pregnant.

My problem with abortion is not people having sex.

 

[apple0154]

Another goddamn video? WTF? Are you working for YouTube now?

I don't need to watch a video to know that sexual relations are NOT A NECESSITY! It's nothing like "going to work" unless you happen to be a porn star. Speaking of porn stars, here are people who's job is to have sex, but oh my goodness, we aren't inundated with pregnant porn stars, are we? Nope, because there are ways to have sex and avoid becoming pregnant.

My problem with abortion is not people having sex.

"sexual relations are NOT A NECESSITY!"

Yes they are! I virtually never claim to speak for everyone but I bet everyone on this board realizes YOU need to get laid in the worst way. I bet there would be a much more relaxed, happy, smiling, peaceful, decent Dixie if you did.

 

[apple0154]

Another goddamn video? WTF? Are you working for YouTube now?

I don't need to watch a video to know that sexual relations are NOT A NECESSITY! It's nothing like "going to work" unless you happen to be a porn star. Speaking of porn stars, here are people who's job is to have sex, but oh my goodness, we aren't inundated with pregnant porn stars, are we? Nope, because there are ways to have sex and avoid becoming pregnant.

My problem with abortion is not people having sex.

Furthermore, yes, there are ways to prevent pregnancy. Porn stars are required to wear condoms. Porn stars are constantly reminded to wear condoms. Porn are are more than likely to be supplied condoms at work. When was the last time you heard of a parent telling their teenage daughter to be sure to take a condom with them when going out Saturday night? When was the last time you saw a sign at the check-out counter reminding people to pick up condoms? When was the last time you saw condom ADS on TV? Not at 3 am but at 6 pm or 8 pm?

Look, it's like anything else. If a person works at a job that requires eye protection they'll be reminded and wear it. Yet, that same person is just as likely not to wear eye protection when using a drill or grass trimmer at home. It's about being reminded. It's about having it out in the open. It's about running ADS showing a man or woman buying condoms and other people in the check-out line nodding approval or picking up some for themselves. It's about making it socially acceptable. It's about giving the impression one is doing a good thing, not making some sleazy purchase.

You want to cut down on abortion? That's where you start.

On that note I noticed the Mrs. is on her way to bed. Byyyyyyyye.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

"sexual relations are NOT A NECESSITY!"

Yes they are! I virtually never claim to speak for everyone but I bet everyone on this board realizes YOU need to get laid in the worst way. I bet there would be a much more relaxed, happy, smiling, peaceful, decent Dixie if you did.

No they are not. Monks and Nuns would all die, if that were true. You're just a fucking moron who has been proven completely wrong on every argument you've made regarding abortion, now attempting to make yet another stupid argument which only showcases what a profound retard you are.

The issue of abortion has nothing to do with whether I have sexual relations, just like it has nothing to do with my desire to keep you from having sexual relations. Those are emotive hateful insults you are attempting to hurl at me because I have PWNED you six ways from Sunday here, and that's all your little mind can think to do. At least you didn't resort to using homosexuality to insult me, that's usually what I get in these situations.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Furthermore, yes, there are ways to prevent pregnancy. Porn stars are required to wear condoms. Porn stars are constantly reminded to wear condoms. Porn are are more than likely to be supplied condoms at work. When was the last time you heard of a parent telling their teenage daughter to be sure to take a condom with them when going out Saturday night? When was the last time you saw a sign at the check-out counter reminding people to pick up condoms? When was the last time you saw condom ADS on TV? Not at 3 am but at 6 pm or 8 pm?

Look, it's like anything else. If a person works at a job that requires eye protection they'll be reminded and wear it. Yet, that same person is just as likely not to wear eye protection when using a drill or grass trimmer at home. It's about being reminded. It's about having it out in the open. It's about running ADS showing a man or woman buying condoms and other people in the check-out line nodding approval or picking up some for themselves. It's about making it socially acceptable. It's about giving the impression one is doing a good thing, not making some sleazy purchase.

You want to cut down on abortion? That's where you start.

On that note I noticed the Mrs. is on her way to bed. Byyyyyyyye.

First off: Every condom manufactured, comes with the disclaimer that it is not intended to prevent pregnancy.

I've seen a few porn movies, and I've never seen them wear condoms.

Hmmm... it's about being reminded, you say? Well, maybe we should make it mandatory, when a male reaches age of sexual maturity, each night at about 2:30 am, we play a recording of a crying baby under his bed? Then he would learn, as he grew up, that if he didn't want this noise every night of his adult life, he better pay attention!

When I was in 9th grade, our rural county school in Alabama wasn't hip on teaching sex education, but we had a Vo-Ag teacher who took it upon himself to give our class a mini sex-ed course. He taught us boys a lot, but one thing he said in particular, always stuck in my mind. He said, "Before you decide to stick your penis in, make sure it's someone you wouldn't mind having a child with." Maybe every 9th grade boy should have heard that advice?

 

[apple0154]

No they are not. Monks and Nuns would all die, if that were true. You're just a fucking moron who has been proven completely wrong on every argument you've made regarding abortion, now attempting to make yet another stupid argument which only showcases what a profound retard you are.

The issue of abortion has nothing to do with whether I have sexual relations, just like it has nothing to do with my desire to keep you from having sexual relations. Those are emotive hateful insults you are attempting to hurl at me because I have PWNED you six ways from Sunday here, and that's all your little mind can think to do. At least you didn't resort to using homosexuality to insult me, that's usually what I get in these situations.

Eh, Dix, please be informed that sexual relations is the primary cause of abortions. In fact, it's the only cause and prohibiting abortion has everything to do with trying to keep people from having sex. As Ms. Ensler noted in the video people are made to feel tainted and demonized for desiring/acquiring sex. This has been going on since some caveman got turned down and decided to write a novel saying God disapproved of sex.

Virginity was valued from time immemorial but for the life of me I can't figure out why. Anyone who gets turned on or values making their partner bleed while engaging in sex is one troubled individual. Maybe like the rest of the barbaric blood sacrifice/worshipping culture of the past a little blood with sex is like that '60's commercial

.



Slice it and dice it any way you want, Dixie. It's all about control of women. Virginity and chastity were highly valued until the woman married and then she became little more than a sex slave for her husband and that continues in certain cultures. Woman: refrain from sex but as soon as you marry be prepared to be the proverbial sperm dumpster. Everything you were taught to dislike, every sexual action you were told was debased.....get used to it when married. Your husband has a right to it but don't ever, ever show you might enjoy a certain sexual activity. OMG, you'll be branded a very naughty woman.

That's the way it was and those days are gone. Finished. Over. Now when a woman desires a man she is free to pursue that desire. What is a more basic freedom than to share ones body with another, be it heterosexual, homosexual or bi-sexual?

P.S. You'll notice I included another video for you. You can thank me later.