Altruism

[evince]

If you are proud of your murdering of someone is that altruism?

 

[Saint Guinefort]

If you are proud of your murdering of someone is that altruism?

I think you might be missing the point. Of course it wouldn't be.

 

[evince]

Jumping on a grenade doesnt give you time to feel good about your actions

 

[evince]

The definition of altruism has no requirement for you to feel no emotion about your actions

 

[Saint Guinefort]

Jumping on a grenade doesnt give you time to feel good about your actions

Making the decision does, however.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

The definition of altruism has no requirement for you to feel no emotion about your actions

It's implicit in "unselfish".

 

[evince]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/altruism


altruism
noun
al·​tru·​ism ˈal-trü-ˌi-zəm
Synonyms of altruism
1
: unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others
charitable acts motivated purely by altruism
2
: behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species

No requirement the actor feels nothing as a result

 

[evince]

It's implicit in "unselfish".

Doing for others does imply feeling good about your actions


It’s why humans still exist

 

[evince]

Without self sacrifice for others we would not exist


We would have died out very quickly

 

[Saint Guinefort]

Doing for others does imply feeling good about your actions

Unselfish does, however.

Let's take a more extreme example: Let's say I keep you from being hurt in a train accident but I only did it because I was promised a huge monetary pay-out if I save someone. Did I do it unselfishly? Clearly not. But the end result is I helped you. Doesn't matter though, I didn't do it for unselfish reasons. I could not have been said to be acting altruistically.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

Without self sacrifice for others we would not exist


We would have died out very quickly

And I contend that there is no purely "self sacrifice". It happens all the time that people help other people...but I'm saying that in their deepest heart they are doing it (in part) because it makes them feel good which means it isn't unselfish anymore.

It can still be a great good and people benefit, but it is not altruistic per se.

 

[evince]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/unselfish


Again no requirement the actor doesn’t feel good about their choice

 

[Saint Guinefort]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/unselfish


Again no requirement the actor doesn’t feel hood about their choice

Not sure what you think "unselfish" means in this case. I gave an example as a counterpoint a couple posts back.

 

[evince]

Jumping on a grenade doesnt give you time to feel good about your actions

This

 

[Saint Guinefort]

This

Already addressed a few posts back. The decision to jump on the grenade is the action I am speaking of.

 

[evince]

The meaning of words matter


Altruism requires that you care about others


Unselfishness also does



Separating our mankind’s tendencies to place harm to others over self harm


It’s what makes us human


Those that would not act this way are in fact lacking certain human traits


It’s called sociopathy

 

[Saint Guinefort]

The meaning of words matter


Altruism requires that you care about others


Unselfishness also does



Separating our mankind’s tendencies to place harm to others over self harm


It’s what makes us human


Those that would not act this way are in fact lacking certain human traits


It’s called sociopathy

Again, this is nothing more than a philosophical discussion. No one is here suggesting people need to harm each other or be sociopaths.

I take it you do not consider "happiness" to be something you enjoy or value?

 

[evince]

Based on a false definition of the very word you are concerned with

Altruism does not require a zero emotional state


It in fact requires one cares

 

[Saint Guinefort]

Based on a false definition of the very word you are concerned with

Altruism does not require a zero emotional state

ONLY if one thinks personal happiness is not something they enjoy or gain benefit from.

 

[IBDaMann]

And I contend that there is no purely "self sacrifice".

This is a "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Are you contending that there is no self-sacrifice? If so, your contention is absurd. If not, you are acknowledging altruism.

Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.