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This is so awful. What really is upsetting is that this happens to people who do have insurance. But too many of you don't think it will happen to you. Actually, as I am writing this I am thinking of polling on this, and I realize that a large majority of Americans do get it. So it really doesn't matter what a handful of righties on a message board believe.

But even with those majorities, I don't know if it's possible to change things. The big money is against this.

Cash Before Chemo:
Hospitals Get Tough
Bad Debts Prompt
Change in Billing;
$45,000 to Come In
By BARBARA MARTINEZ
April 28, 2008; Page A1

LAKE JACKSON, Texas -- When Lisa Kelly learned she had leukemia in late 2006, her doctor advised her to seek urgent care at M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston. But the nonprofit hospital refused to accept Mrs. Kelly's limited insurance. It asked for $105,000 in cash before it would admit her.

Sitting in the hospital's business office, Mrs. Kelly says she told M.D. Anderson's representatives that she had some money to pay for treatment, but couldn't get all the cash they asked for that day. "Are they going to send me home?" she recalls thinking. "Am I going to die?"


A growing trend in the hospital industry means cancer patients like Lisa Kelly are being asked to pay cash upfront before receiving treatment.
Hospitals are adopting a policy to improve their finances: making medical care contingent on upfront payments. Typically, hospitals have billed people after they receive care. But now, pointing to their burgeoning bad-debt and charity-care costs, hospitals are asking patients for money before they get treated.

Hospitals say they have turned to the practice because of a spike in patients who don't pay their bills. Uncompensated care cost the hospital industry $31.2 billion in 2006, up 44% from $21.6 billion in 2000, according to the American Hospital Association.

The bad debt is driven by a larger number of Americans who are uninsured or who don't have enough insurance to cover medical costs if catastrophe strikes. Even among those with adequate insurance, deductibles and co-payments are growing so big that insured patients also have trouble paying hospitals.

Letting bad debt balloon unchecked would threaten hospitals' finances and their ability to provide care, says Richard Umbdenstock, president of the American Hospital Association. Hospitals would rather discuss costs with patients upfront, he says. "After, when it's an ugly surprise or becomes contentious, it doesn't work for anybody."

M.D. Anderson says it went to a new upfront-collection system for initial visits in 2005 after its unpaid patient bills jumped by $18 million to $52 million that year. The hospital said its increasing bad-debt load threatened its mission to cure cancer, a goal on which it spends hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

The change had the desired effect: The hospital's bad debt fell to $33 million the following year.

Asking patients to pay after they've received treatment is "like asking someone to pay for the car after they've driven off the lot," says John Tietjen, vice president for patient financial services at M.D. Anderson. "The time that the patient is most receptive is before the care is delivered."

M.D. Anderson says it provides assistance or free care to poor patients who can't afford treatment. It says it acted appropriately in Mrs. Kelly's case because she wasn't indigent, but underinsured. The hospital says it wouldn't accept her insurance because the payout, a maximum of $37,000 a year, would be less than 30% of the estimated costs of her care.

Tenet Healthcare and HCA, two big, for-profit hospital chains, say they have also been asking patients for upfront payments before admitting them. While the practice has received little notice, some patient advocates and health-care experts find it harder to justify at nonprofit hospitals, given their benevolent mission and improving financial fortunes.

In the Black

An Ohio State University study found net income per bed nearly tripled at nonprofit hospitals to $146,273 in 2005 from $50,669 in 2000. According to the American Hospital Directory, 77% of nonprofit hospitals are in the black, compared with 61% of for-profit hospitals. Nonprofit hospitals are exempt from taxes and are supposed to channel the income they generate back into their operations. Many have used their growing surpluses to reward their executives with rich pay packages, build new wings and accumulate large cash reserves.

M.D. Anderson, which is part of the University of Texas, is a nonprofit institution exempt from taxes. In 2007, it recorded net income of $310 million, bringing its cash, investments and endowment to nearly $1.9 billion.

When you have that much money in the till and that much profit, it's kind of hard to say no" to sick patients by asking for money upfront, says Uwe Reinhardt, a health-care economist at Princeton University, who thinks all hospitals should pay taxes. Nonprofit organizations "shouldn't behave this way," he says.

It isn't clear how many of the nation's 2,033 nonprofit hospitals require upfront payments. A voluntary 2006 survey by the Internal Revenue Service found 14% of 481 nonprofit hospitals required patients to pay or make an arrangement to pay before being admitted. It was the first time the agency asked that question.

Nataline Sarkisyan, a 17-year-old cancer patient who died in December waiting for a liver transplant, drew national attention when former presidential candidate John Edwards lambasted her health insurer for refusing to pay for the operation. But what went largely unnoticed is that Ms. Sarkisyan's hospital, UCLA Medical Center, a nonprofit hospital that is part of the University of California system, refused to do the procedure after the insurance denial unless the family paid it $75,000 upfront, according to the family's lawyer, Tamar Arminak.

The family got that money together, but then the hospital demanded $300,000 to cover costs of caring for Nataline after surgery, Ms. Arminak says.

UCLA says it can't comment on the case because the family hasn't given its consent. A spokeswoman says UCLA doesn't have a specific policy regarding upfront payments, but works with patients on a case-by-case basis.

Federal law requires hospitals to treat emergencies, such as heart attacks or injuries from accidents. But the law doesn't cover conditions that aren't immediately life-threatening.

At the American Cancer Society, which runs call centers to help patients navigate financial problems, more people are saying they're being asked for large upfront payments by hospitals that they can't afford. "My greatest concern is that there are substantial numbers of people who need cancer care" who don't get it, "usually for financial reasons," says Otis Brawley, chief medical officer.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120934207044648511.html?mod=2_1566_topbox
 
who's more likley to change it Obama or mcbush.

Well, that's a close call, because change can mean many things, and I firmly believe McCain has no problem making it worse. And it'll be a lot easier to make it worse than it will be to make it better.
 
It is the way of capitalism. Profit first. The main disadvantage of a capitalistic system.
Then there are the stingy republicans who will approve spending trillions to kill people in a war based on lies and or mistakes, but whine about paying to save American citizens lives.
 
Apparently Darla just discovered the phenomenon of hospitals being bankrupted by people who don't pay their bills. Many have closed their doors when they can no longer pay their doctors, pay for electricity, buy medical supplies etc. This is especially common in southwestern border-state areas with high concentrations of illegal aliens. The hospitals treat them as they treat everyone else... and then shut their doors permanently.

But never fear. If Hillary or Obama is elected, soon we will have Socialized Medicine like they have in Canada and England. Then EVERYBODY will have to wait months for necessary treatments, even if they can pay a MILLION dollars up front.

And as for elective procedures.... try waiting lines of years.

Yup, finally we'll have true equality: Health care will suck for everyone. Sounds like a great solution to me.
 
USC is right. Maybe removing the profit motive and having the gov run it would be better.

Never fear. If Hillary or Obama is elected, soon we will have Socialized Medicine like they have in Canada and England. Then EVERYBODY will have to wait months for necessary treatments, even if they can pay a MILLION dollars up front.

And as for elective procedures.... try waiting lines of years.

Yup, finally we'll have true equality: Health care will suck for everyone. Sounds like a great solution to me.
 
USC is right. Maybe removing the profit motive and having the gov run it would be better.


that's a fair point, but the other side of the coin is there will be no incentive to reduce waste. Probably lead to higher costs along with all the people who don't pay taxes getting themselves some of that free medical care also.
 
USC is right. Maybe removing the profit motive and having the gov run it would be better.
Top, you said two things wrong there. 1st was that citizen was right. 2nd was that government will run health care better. You will hear more horror stories about government in health care than we do now.
 
that's a fair point, but the other side of the coin is there will be no incentive to reduce waste. Probably lead to higher costs along with all the people who don't pay taxes getting themselves some of that free medical care also.

Make waste in the govt run medical system a crime.
Not sure how we could do that but I am sure it could be worked out. Like fradulent medicaid billing.
 
Health care shouldn't be a commodity on the open market. A move to a single-payer system would be advantageous, it could easily co-exist with a second tier private system funded by either cash (for the wealthy) or insurance. That mightn't sit well with the ideologues but it works.
 
msbush is inept on healthcare and the economy. How's he gonna win again?

By painting some black preacher no one ever heard of, as a phony symbol of angry black militantism, and smearing obama by association.

You think republicans want to talk about iraq, healthcare or the economy? LOL
 
The idiot lies of people like little acorn about other countries medical care is just too funny. All bullshit and no proof.
 
The idiot lies of people like little acorn about other countries medical care is just too funny. All bullshit and no proof.

Hannity & Rush tell Little A it's true, so it's gotta be.

Worst rightie myth going..."endless waits for elective procedures." I have relatives in Canada. They've never heard of such a thing.
 
Thank you Di. its true there are waiting lists for elective surgery but a couple of months is the norm. Now if it is an emergency they get right in.

Silly little "nuts" dont really want facts though they perfer lies.
 
Hannity & Rush tell Little A it's true, so it's gotta be.

Worst rightie myth going..."endless waits for elective prhave relatinever heard of such a thing.
. Onecelar I respect your opinion but I have 8 relatives in Canada who are doctors (don't ask long story) who will speak to the stories(negative) we hear about their system.
 
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