IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
Bush isn't crazy either. There is all that talk about talking to God. I don't think Bush believes that but he knows that some of his supporters are crazy. And as we know crazy people get to vote too.
An Interesting Lunch
- Thread starter LadyT
- Start date
klaatu
Fusionist
Iran president paves the way for arabs' imam return
Nov 17, 2005
His call for the destruction of Israel may have grabbed headlines abroad, but it is President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's devotion to a mystical religious figure that is arousing greater interest inside Iran.
In a keynote speech on Wednesday to senior clerics, Ahmadinejad spoke of his strong belief in the second coming of Shi'ite Muslims' "hidden" 12th Imam.
According to Shi'ite Muslim teaching, Abul-Qassem Mohammad, the 12th leader whom Shi'ites consider descended from the Prophet Mohammed, disappeared in 941 but will return at the end of time to lead an era of Islamic justice.
"Our revolution's main mission is to pave the way for the reappearance of the 12th Imam, the Mahdi," Ahmadinejad said in the speech to Friday Prayers leaders from across the country.
"Therefore, Iran should become a powerful, developed and model Islamic society."
"Today, we should define our economic, cultural and political policies based on the policy of Imam Mahdi's return. We should avoid copying the West's policies and systems," he added, newspapers and local news agencies reported.
Ahmadinejad refers to the return of the 12th Imam, also known as the Mahdi, in almost all his major speeches since he took office in August.
A September address to the U.N. General Assembly contained long passages on the Mahdi which confused Western diplomats and irked those from Sunni Muslim countries who believe in a different line of succession from Mohammed.
This fascination has prompted wild stories to circulate.
Presidential aides have denied a popular rumor that he ordered his cabinet to write a letter to the 12th Imam and throw it down a well near the holy city of Qom where thousands of pilgrims come each week to pray and drop messages to the Imam.
But what really has tongues wagging is the possibility that Ahmadinejad's belief in the 12th Imam's return may be linked to the supposed growing influence of a secretive society devoted to the Mahdi which was banned in the early 1980s.
Founded in 1953 and used by the Shah of Iran to try to eradicate followers of the Bahai faith, the Hojjatieh Society is governed by the conviction that the 12th Imam's return will be hastened by the creation of chaos on earth.
Ahmadinejad, who is only the second non-cleric to become president since the revolution, has made clear his immense respect for Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah-Yazdi, a deeply conservative cleric with close ties to the Hojjatieh-founded Haqqani theological school in Qom.
Conspiracy theorists, never in short supply in Iran, allege that many members of Ahmadinejad's cabinet and other key appointees are Haqqani graduates and Hojjatieh followers.
"It seems that they (Hojjatieh members) have recently become more active and are spread through the government," said a political analyst who declined to be named.
"The president has repeatedly said his government will pave the way for the Imam's return."
But others point out that many former government officials, perceived as moderates, graduated from Haqqani.
Haqqani's continued links to Hojjatieh, though rumored, have not been proven and it remains one of the most prestigious theological schools in Qom.
Ahmadinejad's emphasis on the importance of development and justice to encourage the Mahdi's return, also suggest an important divergence from Hojjatieh thinking.
But he would be better advised to focus his speeches on practical rather than religious issues, said former Vice-President Mohammad Ali Abtahi.
"Of course, we must pray for the return of the Imam, but we must also tackle inflation and unemployment," the reformist cleric told Reuters.
http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_10945.shtml
Nov 17, 2005
His call for the destruction of Israel may have grabbed headlines abroad, but it is President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's devotion to a mystical religious figure that is arousing greater interest inside Iran.
In a keynote speech on Wednesday to senior clerics, Ahmadinejad spoke of his strong belief in the second coming of Shi'ite Muslims' "hidden" 12th Imam.
According to Shi'ite Muslim teaching, Abul-Qassem Mohammad, the 12th leader whom Shi'ites consider descended from the Prophet Mohammed, disappeared in 941 but will return at the end of time to lead an era of Islamic justice.
"Our revolution's main mission is to pave the way for the reappearance of the 12th Imam, the Mahdi," Ahmadinejad said in the speech to Friday Prayers leaders from across the country.
"Therefore, Iran should become a powerful, developed and model Islamic society."
"Today, we should define our economic, cultural and political policies based on the policy of Imam Mahdi's return. We should avoid copying the West's policies and systems," he added, newspapers and local news agencies reported.
Ahmadinejad refers to the return of the 12th Imam, also known as the Mahdi, in almost all his major speeches since he took office in August.
A September address to the U.N. General Assembly contained long passages on the Mahdi which confused Western diplomats and irked those from Sunni Muslim countries who believe in a different line of succession from Mohammed.
This fascination has prompted wild stories to circulate.
Presidential aides have denied a popular rumor that he ordered his cabinet to write a letter to the 12th Imam and throw it down a well near the holy city of Qom where thousands of pilgrims come each week to pray and drop messages to the Imam.
But what really has tongues wagging is the possibility that Ahmadinejad's belief in the 12th Imam's return may be linked to the supposed growing influence of a secretive society devoted to the Mahdi which was banned in the early 1980s.
Founded in 1953 and used by the Shah of Iran to try to eradicate followers of the Bahai faith, the Hojjatieh Society is governed by the conviction that the 12th Imam's return will be hastened by the creation of chaos on earth.
Ahmadinejad, who is only the second non-cleric to become president since the revolution, has made clear his immense respect for Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah-Yazdi, a deeply conservative cleric with close ties to the Hojjatieh-founded Haqqani theological school in Qom.
Conspiracy theorists, never in short supply in Iran, allege that many members of Ahmadinejad's cabinet and other key appointees are Haqqani graduates and Hojjatieh followers.
"It seems that they (Hojjatieh members) have recently become more active and are spread through the government," said a political analyst who declined to be named.
"The president has repeatedly said his government will pave the way for the Imam's return."
But others point out that many former government officials, perceived as moderates, graduated from Haqqani.
Haqqani's continued links to Hojjatieh, though rumored, have not been proven and it remains one of the most prestigious theological schools in Qom.
Ahmadinejad's emphasis on the importance of development and justice to encourage the Mahdi's return, also suggest an important divergence from Hojjatieh thinking.
But he would be better advised to focus his speeches on practical rather than religious issues, said former Vice-President Mohammad Ali Abtahi.
"Of course, we must pray for the return of the Imam, but we must also tackle inflation and unemployment," the reformist cleric told Reuters.
http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_10945.shtml
And I'm old enough to remember that as far back as the 1980s, many were predicting that Iran was going to go nuclear in a couple of years.
They's had a nuclear program for decades. The technical hurdles to weaponizing a nuclear program remain immense.
Certainly, any ambitions they might have should be thwarted. Nuclear proliferation is destabilizing to the world. But, this is not an imminent threat, and bed-wetting and diaper-shitting is not warranted at this point.
I did not. I hadn't even posted on this thread until that response to your post. I only mentioned Hitler because he was specifically mentioned in another post about our limiting ourselves.
If the leader of another nation will not deal in good faith will it matter if somebody else, other than leadership, labels him as a "madman"? Truly, if the only response we have left to get our goals met is to wage war does it make the difference how he was "labeled"? Do we truly limit ourselves by allowing a free press to label him as they will or having a citizen at a dinner table label him as such? Honestly...
You want to play a game of site wars?
"On April 13, 2006, Iranian news agency IRNA quoted Ahmadinejad as saying that the peaceful Iranian nuclear technology would not pose a threat to any party because "we want peace and stability and we will not cause injustice to anyone and at the same time we will not submit to injustice.""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadinejad#Nuclear_program
This one says he's a little lamb.
Once again. Regardless of the label is he dealing in good faith?
Personally, were I the leader of Iran, I would "talk" their ears off while building the weapon. I would not let anybody deter me from that goal because there is evidence the US will do nothing once you go nuclear...
Something odd happening to our quotes...I'll look into it.
something similar happened on a nother post I think, but I'm pretty sure I just screwed mine up. I wouldn't kill myself over it.
Side track: I didn't bring hitler into the mix because I actually think that in the end, he was crazy. There's speculation that he had syphillis in his later years and that that it made him mentally unstable. My comment was more focused on Amhad than anything.
Damo, the point is that you're going to me more likely to jump to the conclusion that the only option left si to wage war if you are dealing with a madman. You have to take the journey and exploit all options before you get to that point. If you think someone's crazy, why would you try to strike a deal with someone or engage in treaties?
IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
Once again. Regardless of the label is he dealing in good faith?
Personally, were I the leader of Iran, I would "talk" their ears off while building the weapon. I would not let anybody deter me from that goal because there is evidence the US will do nothing once you go nuclear...
I can't be sure. Obviously there is good reason to go nuclear as it is politcally advantageous. However that is not to say that nothing we say can matter. Negotiations are still helpful even if one or more parties are not dealing in good faith because the potential remains they may change their minds.
Personally, were I the leader of Iran, I would "talk" their ears off while building the weapon. I would not let anybody deter me from that goal because there is evidence the US will do nothing once you go nuclear...
I can't be sure. Obviously there is good reason to go nuclear as it is politcally advantageous. However that is not to say that nothing we say can matter. Negotiations are still helpful even if one or more parties are not dealing in good faith because the potential remains they may change their minds.
klaatu
Fusionist
Yeah ..what a lamb... did you read further down?
Iran-Israel relations
Main article: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel
See also: Iran-Israel relations
In October 2005 Ahmadinejad gave a speech that contained antagonistic statements about Israel. According to widely published translations, he agreed with a statement he attributed to Ayatollah Khomeini that the "occupying regime" had to be removed, and referred to Israel as a "disgraceful stain [on] the Islamic world" that would be eliminated. [45]
Ahmadinejad's comments were condemned by major Western governments, the European Union, Russia, the United Nations Security Council and UN Secretary General Kofi Annan.[46] Egyptian, Turkish and Palestinian leaders also expressed displeasure over Ahmadinejad's remark.[47] Canada's then Prime Minister Paul Martin said, "this threat to Israel's existence, this call for genocide coupled with Iran's obvious nuclear ambitions is a matter that the world cannot ignore."[48]
The translation of his statement has been disputed. At a news conference on January 14, 2006, Ahmadinejad claimed regarding the October speech "There is no new policy, they created a lot of hue and cry over that." [49] In June, 2006 Guardian columnist and foreign correspondent Jonathan Steele cited several Farsi speakers and translators who state that the phrase in question is more accurately translated as "eliminated" or "wiped off" or "wiped away" from "the page of time" or "the pages of history", rather than "wiped off the map".[50] Reviewing the controversy over the translation, New York Times deputy foreign editor Ethan Bronner observed that "all official translations" of the comments, including the foreign ministry and president's office, "refer to wiping Israel away". [51]
[edit]
Holocaust denial
See also: Controversies surrounding Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Ahmadinejad repeatedly made controversial statements questioning the Holocaust, and criticized European laws against Holocaust denial. These statements were condemned by many governments, and led to accusations of anti-Semitism.
According to CNN, he stated that "they have invented a myth that Jews were massacred" [54]. In an interview with Der Spiegel, he was asked, "Are you still saying that the Holocaust is just 'a myth'?" Ahmadinejad responded, "I will only accept something as truth if I am actually convinced of it." In the same interview, he later stated, "We oppose every type of crime against any people. But we want to know whether this crime actually took place or not. [...] If it did not occur, then the Jews have to go back to where they came from".[55
there's a huge assumption built into your argument. That Iran is "building the weapon", while they talk to us.
Acutally, there's no credible evidence Iran is building a weapon.
Now, maybe they would "like" to have a nuke. I find that a credible assertion. But, all credible evidence indicates they don't have the technical capacity to acutally weaponize uranium. To enrich uranium for a bomb, it takes thousands of precision centrifuges operating under demanding and techincally difficult cascades. There's no evidence Iran has this capacity.
IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
Such rhetoric is popular in Iran. He is catering to his constituents. Anti-Judaism is popular in Iran and other middle eastern countries. This certainly doesn't show he is crazy only that he appealing to a hateful constituency.
Those quotes still don't confirm you're original assertion that he wants to bring about world war three.
Nobody has stopped the negotiations. In fact, if the US were directly involved they would be more likely to fail. It is better to have the US as seen to be in opposition in this case.
Allowing the press and a few diners to label the President of Iran as a "madman" simply isn't a large enough deal to say we have sidetracked and stopped negotiations. It is unrealistic to expect our government to crack down on those so labeling this man...
IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
Allowing the press and a few diners to label the President of Iran as a "madman" simply isn't a large enough deal to say we have sidetracked and stopped negotiations. It is unrealistic to expect our government to crack down on those so labeling this man...
I am not suggesting such a thing. Just offering my opinion that it is not a good thing if for nothing else that it is incorrect. However I do think the influence it can have over the electorate is real.
I am not suggesting such a thing. Just offering my opinion that it is not a good thing if for nothing else that it is incorrect. However I do think the influence it can have over the electorate is real.
