An Unwinnable War - Washington Needs an Endgame in Ukraine | Foreign Affairs

dukkha said:
yep. When the USA actively opposed he Chinese peace plan the world knows who are the paper tiger, it aint China

China is making leaps and boinds with diplomacy ( Iran/KSA deal was astounding) as Biden let the Abraham Accords fall apart. China is the new big economic dog. Not to get political but unless we get trump back who doesnt seek accomodation with China but looks a t China a a strategic rival we are doomed.

Which is why getting in to the Ukraine war over Russia was just plain dumb -we even now have weapons shortages because of it
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You have heard me point out that WOKE is a suicide cult right?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Ukraine will be neutral, until they do as they must Ukraine continues to be rubblized. .
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The game isn't Ukraine anymore. Its using Ukraine as a forward base for the USA.
I call it the Ukraine money pit as it sucks up our weapons, treasure and focus while China makes worldwide advances
 
dukkha said:
The game isn't Ukraine anymore. Its using Ukraine as a forward base for the USA.
I call it the Ukraine money pit as it sucks up our weapons, treasure and focus while China makes worldwide advances
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Ukraine will be neutral and America will be neutralized.....the rest of the world is done tolerating this bullshit. America's elites would be terrified if they knew what reality looks like. They Dont.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Ukraine will be neutral and America will be neutralized.....the rest of the world is done tolerating this bullshit.
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Ukraine. corrupt and undemocratic goes into NATO.
then there will be a hot border for the rest of this century where anything bad can happen
 
America is going in reverse, everyday the anger against us rises.

NATO is over and Europe is in massive decline, social chaos is imminent.
 
The last thing European leaders needed was another massive failure.....and Ukraine might well be the biggest failure of leadership yet.
 
Phoenyx said:
The successful reunification of Germany, in 1990, another country divided by terms of peace, demonstrates that focusing on nonmilitary elements of the contestation can produce results.
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The reunification of Germany did not demonstrate that focusing on nonmilitary elements can produce results. It demonstrated the bankruptcy and collapse of the Soviet Union.

Here is a case with more similarities to the Russia-Ukraine conflict:

In 1950 the "People's Republic" of Korea invaded South Korea. In 1953 an armistice was reached on the basis of the line of military control. A precarious peace has been maintained for 70 years by a strong US military presence in the south. In the absence of that, can anyone doubt that the various Kims would have invaded the south again?

Is that what is being proposed to end Russia's invasion of Ukraine? And when Russia has had time to recover some of its strength, where will Putin try his luck again?
 
I would suggest the Ukraine problem could be solved quite easily.......the West could shut down Russia's access to the world's banking system and invite Putin to discuss the matter once all his troops were back in Russia......if Biden had any intent to end the problem it is what he should have done over a year ago.........
 
Phoenyx said:
I just finished reading the Foreign Affairs article with the same name as this thread written by Samuel Charap. I certainly don't agree with a lot of it, but I do strongly agree with Charap's belief that Washington needs to start thinking about negotiating a way out of this hot war and at least transitioning it to a cold one, such as the armistice between North and South Korea brokered around 70 years ago. I'll just quote the ending, since I have some disagreements with the introduction. I actually even disagree with some of the conclusion- I believe that Crimea's referendum to join Russia back in 2014 was legitimate and should be respected, and I also think that much if not all of the territory that Russia now holds may well be for the best, given the various refendums that have been held there and the claimed results that they all voted to join Russia. And I also believe that the U.S. should stop supplying weapons and training to Ukraine immediately and focus on its domestic issues, of which it has many. But I think the rest of Charap's conclusion is on track.

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June 5, 2023

[snip]

An endgame premised on an armistice would leave Ukraine—at least temporarily—without all its territory. But the country would have the opportunity to recover economically, and the death and destruction would end. It would remain locked in a conflict with Russia over the areas occupied by Moscow, but that conflict would play out in the political, cultural, and economic domains, where, with Western support, Ukraine would have advantages. The successful reunification of Germany, in 1990, another country divided by terms of peace, demonstrates that focusing on nonmilitary elements of the contestation can produce results. Meanwhile, a Russian-Ukrainian armistice would also not end the West’s confrontation with Russia, but the risks of a direct military clash would decrease dramatically, and the global consequences of the war would be mitigated.

Many commentators will continue to insist that this war must be decided only on the battlefield. But that view discounts how the war’s structural realities are unlikely to change even if the frontline shifts, an outcome that itself is far from guaranteed. The United States and its allies should be capable of helping Ukraine simultaneously on the battlefield and at the negotiating table. Now is the time to start.
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Full article:
An Unwinnable War - Washington Needs an Endgame in Ukraine | Foreign Affairs
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These trump deranged lunatics want wwIII.

they've committed to regime change in russia, just to keep russiagating.

:truestory:
 
JesusAI said:
These trump deranged lunatics want wwIII.

they've committed to regime change in russia, just to keep russiagating.
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i dont disagree, consider how Biden was saying not to long ago he didn't want Poland to supply MIGs
-as that type of offensive platform could "lead to WWIII" ( direct quote)

So what does he do now? commit F-16s to Uk!

They just blow past their own redlines, plug it down the memory hole then act surprised when called out
 
U.S. announces another $2.1 billion in weapons to Ukraine.
( hundreds of billions and soon you are talking real money)
 
Hawkeye10 said:
America will be blamed for all of it...do not forget this part.
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When the Poles speak of the Western Betrayal, they are not speaking of the support they got from the West during WWII. They are speaking of the lack of support. Ukraine will not blame us for sending them weapons to defend their country.
 
dukkha said:
U.S. announces another $2.1 billion in weapons to Ukraine.
( hundreds of billions and soon you are talking real money)
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It is called slicing the salami. Each little slice is too small for Putin to complain, but in the end, Ukraine has enough to defend itself.
 
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