yeah, I know
Apostates versus converts
- Thread starter domer76
- Start date
Where do you get off saying that?
What statement have I made that is epistemologically incoherent?
Look, I have no interest in exchanging insults.
Well, you said you did not know the history of the word. I took you at your word.
You could have fooled me with your posts.
"I do not know the whole history of the term "atheism."
Hummm.
The whole history would involve the 1950's when debating atheists decided to "evolve" the word to mean "without a belief in God." That would certainly increase their ranks, since they started claiming that EVERYONE is born as an atheist...and then is indoctrinated into a religion. The asserted that all babies, toddlers, and people with defective thinking (who could not form a belief in a god) were, BY DEFINITION, atheists.
I think that was underhanded. I have no belief in any gods...but there is no way I would use the word "atheist" as a descriptor. NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING AN ATHEIST. Nothing at all. It is as moral and intelligent as being what we now refer to as a "believer."
But I am not an atheist.
Since that causes lots of problems in discussions, I have stopped using the descriptor agnostic...and simply described my take on the situation as clearly as I could.
I have asked others who call themselves atheist to describe their positions with the same rigor I described mine. So far...none have taken me up on that. I am not sure why.
How about you...IF YOU USE atheists as a descriptor or as part of a descriptor?
I know what you believe. You say the same thing over and over. Got it.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Conservatives vs. Leftists. Intellect vs. Emotion. Knowledge vs. Faith. Education vs. Dumming Down our Children. Desire for Freedom vs. Desire to Bend Over.
That was stupid, Hume.
There is no believing (or guessing) in anything I wrote. I suspect you are the "believer"...but that you "believe" something different from what religious people believe.
Why not describe you position as precisely as I did mine?
My position is that god is a cultural concept that is taught to people.
I see. And you think that is a concise description of your position?
Are you saying, without saying it, that there are no gods (that you believe there are no gods). That all are just a cultural concept taught to people?
No, I am saying that the concept of god is taught to people.
Thus, saying "there are no gods" is dependent how "god" is defined.
Overlooking the definition used is why almost all discussion about god are useless.
I described what I meant by "gods" in great detail.
So, let me ask you: Are there any GODS that actually exist independent of whether anyone taught anything about them. Can there be any GODS that exist who exist independent of whether anyone taught anything about them?
No.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Nope. It would not involve this.
The entire history of atheism is encapsulated in the meaning of the word, i.e. "without theism" or "lacking theism." Anyone claiming that "belief in gods" is somehow required is lying. Buddhist monks do not believe in any gods yet they have a definite theism, precluding them from being atheists.
That makes sense. No newborn has any theism ... at least none that can be discerned.
Indoctrination is not a requirement.
You worship Climate and Global Warming. You are up to your neck in theism. You cannot claim to be an atheist.
Agreed.
Thank you. I'm an atheist. It's good to know that I have your permission and approval.
Your reason for not using the term "agnostic" is that you would be honest in doing so, and you can't have that.
You are an agnostic, which means that your position is that the supernatural is unknowable. It's a position on knowability, not one of belief.
You go out of your way to be dishonest and to convolute/derail conversations.
You mean with the same dishonesty and logically contradictory pivoting with which you describe your labels.
I totally bitch-slapped you back to last Tuesday. You were forced to flee to your safe-space and put me on "ignore" while you regrouped.
I'm still an atheist. Feel free to bring it on.
So you do believe there are no gods. Why was that so hard to get to?
I do not believe there are no gods. No.
I said, it depends on how you define "god."
You've indicated that there are no gods except those that are taught as a cultural concept.
So I am not sure of what the "no" here is about.
I have given you a very concise definition.
Use that to answer my question. And if you have any questions of me, Hume, please ask them.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Do you exist independently of any teachings (or lack thereof) of you?