Based on polls Clintons wins nomination

Watermark said:
I don't think, since the proportional system was put into place in 1970, the race has ever been close enough for superdelegates to make a difference.
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I realize that. I also don't think the super delegates would be foolish enough to overturn the clear will of the voters.

It's not set up for conflict like that. I think its set up, so that the establishment - through money, influence and media - can strongly influence which candidate gets picked. Lets' not pretend that voters don't respond to hype, media, and money, as much as they do to issues. I really don't think it's mere coincidence that someone like John Edwards has a hard time raising money and getting media coverage. It's related to a lot of factors, but the fact that he has nowhere near as much establishment support as Clinton or Obama isn't unrelated.
 
Damocles said:
As far as I understand Florida does exactly that. However, he'll still need more than he has to be a broker. In a few he got a bit less than 15%. I predict he will not be a broker at the convention.
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If he doesn't get 15% in most states on Feb. 5th I'm sure he'll drop out.

But still, that doesn't necessarily bode well for Obama. Many Edwards supporters would go over to Clinton. The only way Obama can be assured Edwards votes is if Edwards stays in and wins 15% in most states - however undemocratic that may sound.
 
frustrated!

So i have learned something today. Doesn't all of this basically negate the meaning of democracy? It seems to be one big facade.
 
TexasMeg said:
So i have learned something today. Doesn't all of this basically negate the meaning of democracy? It seems to be one big facade.
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Why would it negate the meaning of democracy? Political parties send out the candidate they want to send out. If you disagree with it vote against them in the general.
 
um because the people should be picking who they want to run in the general.. not the senate and house democrats in back room deals for seats on committees in exchange for endorsement.
 
Right, brits don't even really get to vote for prime minister. Just for party.

I don't have a problem with the system, per se. I have a problem with the fact that the establishment can use it's influence, and it's access to money and media to swamp a candidate they don't prefer. Which is why I'd like to see public financing of campaigns, to give all candidates an equal footing.
 
Watermark said:
Why would it negate the meaning of democracy? Political parties send out the candidate they want to send out. If you disagree with it vote against them in the general.
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But according to all of this isn't it entirely possible that the party sends out a candidate that doesn't necessarily get the popular vote? And if that's the case how is that democratic?
 
Cypress said:
Right, brits don't even really get to vote for prime minister. Just for party.

I don't have a problem with the system, per se. I have a problem with the fact that the establishment can use it's influence, and it's access to money and media to swamp a candidate they don't prefer. Which is why I'd like to see public financing of campaigns, to give all candidates an equal footing.
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I don't really know why the establishment WOULDN'T go behind Obama. If Obama is nominated, Obama is our next president. That's just plain and simple fact. What the establishment is doing now is suicide.

Then again, I don't see the superdelegates swinging the nomination. If the race is so close the the superdelegates could, it would be insane to change the nomination and put a black mark on their nominee in the general.

I think the superdelegates are there mainly just to set policy and platform for next time around.
 
TexasMeg said:
But according to all of this isn't it entirely possible that the party sends out a candidate that doesn't necessarily get the popular vote? And if that's the case how is that democratic?
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It doesn't need to be "democratic". The job of a party is to send out the candidate it thinks is A. most likely to win and B. most likely to carry the message they want to send.
 
Watermark, if you don't think the establishment can swamp a candidate they'd rather not see win the nomination, I refer you to the Howard Dean campaign.

I think Barak is perfectly palatable to the establishment.
 
its a shitty system. basically the embedded senator democrat with the most money from corporation and 'friends' in congress will win the nomination.
 
If the Democratic Party denies Obama the nomination through "superdelegates" the party will implode .. and they know it.

Clinton has already removed any moral high ground that democrats had of admonishing republicans on using race in elections .. and if McCain wins in Florida tomorrow, he will be the republican nominee .. AND McCain will not use race as a distraction as he has an adoptive black child himself and has been beaten up by republicans for "fathering" that child.

Party insiders are already talking about how badly this might play out.
 
Cypress said:
Right, brits don't even really get to vote for prime minister. Just for party.

I don't have a problem with the system, per se. I have a problem with the fact that the establishment can use it's influence, and it's access to money and media to swamp a candidate they don't prefer. Which is why I'd like to see public financing of campaigns, to give all candidates an equal footing.
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Then you should vote for HillBillary. She endorses public campaign funding.
 
Damocles said:
Then you should vote for HillBillary. She endorses public campaign funding.
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I think all the Dems support public financing.

As for Hillary Clinton, I don't know whether she or Obama would be my second choice after Edwards. I've kinda been flip flopping; Clinton/Obama seem pretty much the same to me, on a lot of levels. So, I'm not going to worry about second choices, until my man Edwards goes down in flames. :)
 
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