bible quote for those that oppose sex ed

Don Quixote

cancer survivor
Contributor
you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free

why not teach students about their bodies and how they work

also about contraception so they do not get pregnant or impregnate

according to the old testament, people became adults around the time of puberty

those hormones exist and pretending that you can stop a river by saying so is idiotic

facts are guideposts through life
 
you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free

why not teach students about their bodies and how they work

also about contraception so they do not get pregnant or impregnate

according to the old testament, people became adults around the time of puberty

those hormones exist and pretending that you can stop a river by saying so is idiotic

facts are guideposts through life
I cannot say I have met anyone who supports abstinence who actually support limiting sex education to "don't do it."(as seems to be the common perception). Now they may not want the SCHOOLS to be doing what they believe is a parents' job, but the ones I know with that belief still do not limit themselves to "don't do it" when educating their children. There are probably those out there, but I am quite certain they are a small minority.

Most who support abstinence education support it as abstinence preferred education, which include teaching about the biological facts of sex, the social aspects of early sexual activity, the potential social and psychological consequences of early sexual activity, the medical consequences of sexual activity, use of birth control methods and their effectiveness in preventing pregnancy and STDs, (like the fact herpes, HPV and other viral STDs are not stopped by condoms, or any other birth control method) how self esteem (or lack of it) can play into the decision to have sex, etc, etc, etc.

Such courses give students everything they need as far as knowledge of birth control, etc. but add a WHOLE lot more focussed on the decision whether to become sexually active or not, as well as the innumerable consequences that can and do occur in addition to STDs and pregnancy.



OTOH, sex ed that excludes abstinence usually is limited to biological facts, warnings on pregnancy and STDs, and advisory one the type and use of birth control, and in some cases, "class is ended, have some rubbers."

LOTS of facts are left out in current traditional sex education classes, especially the social and psychological ramifications, many of which take a teen by surprise with negative consequences even if they do avoid STDs and/or pregnancy.
 
Why is telling kids about sex the parents job any more than mathematics is? They are both required to live life. If parents are witholding the information, the kids have the right to know about it for their own well being. Children are not the property of parents.
 
Some parents are not fit to tell their children about sex!
Some parents are embarrassed about sex and don't want to talk about it.
Leaving it to the parent is not always the wise thing.
My mother was never told anything. I was told some things and I told my daughters, everything they wanted to know and some things they didn't!
 
Because this country is all about hiding and withholding sex. And like most things that are hidden and withheld, we obsess over them.

For a supposedly free and enlightened society, we are about as sexually repressed bunch as you will see.
 
Sex ed now just promotes moral looseness, and the pro choice agenda. Presenting self control as some sort of outdated notion is also a hindrance to the greater culture. All the sex ed you really need is on the side panel of most birth control products.
 
I cannot say I have met anyone who supports abstinence who actually support limiting sex education to "don't do it."(as seems to be the common perception). Now they may not want the SCHOOLS to be doing what they believe is a parents' job, but the ones I know with that belief still do not limit themselves to "don't do it" when educating their children. There are probably those out there, but I am quite certain they are a small minority.

Most who support abstinence education support it as abstinence preferred education, which include teaching about the biological facts of sex, the social aspects of early sexual activity, the potential social and psychological consequences of early sexual activity, the medical consequences of sexual activity, use of birth control methods and their effectiveness in preventing pregnancy and STDs, (like the fact herpes, HPV and other viral STDs are not stopped by condoms, or any other birth control method) how self esteem (or lack of it) can play into the decision to have sex, etc, etc, etc.

Such courses give students everything they need as far as knowledge of birth control, etc. but add a WHOLE lot more focussed on the decision whether to become sexually active or not, as well as the innumerable consequences that can and do occur in addition to STDs and pregnancy.



OTOH, sex ed that excludes abstinence usually is limited to biological facts, warnings on pregnancy and STDs, and advisory one the type and use of birth control, and in some cases, "class is ended, have some rubbers."

LOTS of facts are left out in current traditional sex education classes, especially the social and psychological ramifications, many of which take a teen by surprise with negative consequences even if they do avoid STDs and/or pregnancy.

perhaps i should have specified effective sex ed

i have no problem giving more facts or a complete set of facts - people need to know about their bodies and minds and how they work

seems that a user manual would be a good start

as to abstinence only ed, it has been taken to mean abstinence only without other ed - however, for the other kids that do not get more at home, i recommend the full course
 
perhaps i should have specified effective sex ed

i have no problem giving more facts or a complete set of facts - people need to know about their bodies and minds and how they work

seems that a user manual would be a good start

as to abstinence only ed, it has been taken to mean abstinence only without other ed - however, for the other kids that do not get more at home, i recommend the full course
I recommend the full course for all, regardless of what they get at home. The only thing I object to is the actual distribution of contraceptives in school sex ed programs - IMO that is going way beyond the mandates of public education. I also STRONGLY oppose the laws that allow minors to get prescription contraceptives without parental approval. The state has NO BUSINESS interfering with parental authority over their children.

However I have no problem with a sex ed program including proper instruction on contraceptive use - including cautionary advice on the draw backs of various types - to be included. (As long as it does not include "live fire exercise" if you know what I mean....)

Most parents who support abstinence education feel the same way I do. And for the ones who don't only disagree with the idea of public schools doing what they feel is the job of a parent. Yet all those I personally know who do not like sex ed being a public school item subscribe to the idea that total knowledge is the best - focus on abstinence because it is the ONLY method that is 100% guaranteed when used properly - but also advice on the correct use of contraceptives. (Who knows, they may want to use contraceptives the first couple years AFTER marriage)

Again, I am fully sure there are those out there who think the "don't do it" is the only proper way to treat sex education. However, I live in a VERY conservative, highly religious community is a very conservative, highly religious state. Yet I personally have not met one parent who actually supports abstinence ONLY sex education. As such, the perception that abstinence sex education is supposed to exclude biological and sociological facts of sexual activity is simply incorrect.
 
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I recommend the full course for all, regardless of what they get at home. The only thing I object to is the actual distribution of contraceptives in school sex ed programs - IMO that is going way beyond the mandates of public education. I also STRONGLY oppose the laws that allow minors to get prescription contraceptives without parental approval. The state has NO BUSINESS interfering with parental authority over their children.

However I have no problem with a sex ed program including proper instruction on contraceptive use - including cautionary advice on the draw backs of various types - to be included. (As long as it does not include "live fire exercise" if you know what I mean....)

Most parents who support abstinence education feel the same way I do. And for the ones who don't only disagree with the idea of public schools doing what they feel is the job of a parent. Yet all those I personally know who do not like sex ed being a public school item subscribe to the idea that total knowledge is the best - focus on abstinence because it is the ONLY method that is 100% guaranteed when used properly - but also advice on the correct use of contraceptives. (Who knows, they may want to use contraceptives the first couple years AFTER marriage)

Again, I am fully sure there are those out there who think the "don't do it" is the only proper way to treat sex education. However, I live in a VERY conservative, highly religious community is a very conservative, highly religious state. Yet I personally have not met one parent who actually supports abstinence ONLY sex education. As such, the perception that abstinence sex education is supposed to exclude biological and sociological facts of sexual activity is simply incorrect.

i too prefer that minors (after puberty i find it hard to call them children) should get contraceptives at home or from licensed medical practitioners, however, the state has an interest in reducing spread of STDs just as it has an interest in preventing epidemics of any kind - it is a problem determining where parent's rights end and the state's right begin

children/minors are experiencing sex at earlier and earlier ages (last statistic i saw said that 20% of 6th graders had indulged in sex) - having said that, i am all in favor of parental involvement of teaching minors and children about sex and self respect - peer pressure is still very strong and lack of parental supervision occurs - perhaps teaching our children to be leaders rather than followers is best - truthfully, i have no good solution short of strengthening police oversight, a cure perhaps worse than the solution

it seems that the more that parents try to oversee their children, the more that the children rebel - keep those lines of communication open and lead by example but do not expect reason to always overcome hormones
 
I don't know why you Atheist heathens think that religious people are opposed to teaching sex education in schools. Where do you get these ideas, from King of The Hill?

I have no problems whatsoever, with a comprehensive sex-ed program for adolescents in school. I am opposed to schools handing out condoms like candy, because it promotes what they should be trying to teach against. I think any sex-ed course, should have a heavy emphasis on abstinence, and not just from the standpoint of unwanted pregnancy and disease, but actually more related to relationships in general.

It is far better for a relationship to be based on things other than sex, it allows you to focus on more important aspects of the person, and find whether you have mutual compatibility in areas far more important to the relationship than sex. I think such a thing needs to be taught to kids, because even some adults seem to be unaware of this. If such an approach were taken, we would see far fewer teen pregnancies, and probably far fewer divorces.
 
I don't know why you Atheist heathens think that religious people are opposed to teaching sex education in schools. Where do you get these ideas, from King of The Hill?

I have no problems whatsoever, with a comprehensive sex-ed program for adolescents in school. I am opposed to schools handing out condoms like candy, because it promotes what they should be trying to teach against. I think any sex-ed course, should have a heavy emphasis on abstinence, and not just from the standpoint of unwanted pregnancy and disease, but actually more related to relationships in general.

It is far better for a relationship to be based on things other than sex, it allows you to focus on more important aspects of the person, and find whether you have mutual compatibility in areas far more important to the relationship than sex. I think such a thing needs to be taught to kids, because even some adults seem to be unaware of this. If such an approach were taken, we would see far fewer teen pregnancies, and probably far fewer divorces.

i agree, but first people need to experiment to help find a partner. sometimes for purely physiological reasons, people are sexually incompatible

it would be bad to discover this after marriage

the issue of condoms is something that helps prevent STDs as well as pregnancies - the state has a vested interest in preventing the spread of STDs as well as other diseases
 
I don't know why you Atheist heathens think that religious people are opposed to teaching sex education in schools. Where do you get these ideas, from King of The Hill?

I have no problems whatsoever, with a comprehensive sex-ed program for adolescents in school. I am opposed to schools handing out condoms like candy, because it promotes what they should be trying to teach against. I think any sex-ed course, should have a heavy emphasis on abstinence, and not just from the standpoint of unwanted pregnancy and disease, but actually more related to relationships in general.

It is far better for a relationship to be based on things other than sex, it allows you to focus on more important aspects of the person, and find whether you have mutual compatibility in areas far more important to the relationship than sex. I think such a thing needs to be taught to kids, because even some adults seem to be unaware of this. If such an approach were taken, we would see far fewer teen pregnancies, and probably far fewer divorces.

I gathr it from the myriads of PTA meetings I use to attend! First hand knowledge that some zealots Christians do not want their children taught to use a condom! They don't want their children taught about sex. It should remain taboo and children should find out about it on their own, like their parents before them!
 
it is a problem determining where parent's rights end and the state's right begin
There is no problem, except with those who want government to be our mommie.

The state (ie: government) have no fucking rights. The state has a duty to the people, and nothing more.
 
There is no problem, except with those who want government to be our mommie.

The state (ie: government) have no fucking rights. The state has a duty to the people, and nothing more.

perhaps, but the state has a vested interest in stability of families and proper treatment of children - if you think that you have primary ownership of your children check the laws of your state and you will discover that if you violate certain laws or customs the state has the right to intervene between you and your children

also, with regard to marriage, when you get married and use a wedding license, that license represents a contract between you, your spouse and the state with the state having primacy - you cannot avoid that by living together as the state recognizes a living together arrangement as a prima-facie declaration of marriage
 
perhaps, but the state has a vested interest in stability of families and proper treatment of children - if you think that you have primary ownership of your children check the laws of your state and you will discover that if you violate certain laws or customs the state has the right to intervene between you and your children

also, with regard to marriage, when you get married and use a wedding license, that license represents a contract between you, your spouse and the state with the state having primacy - you cannot avoid that by living together as the state recognizes a living together arrangement as a prima-facie declaration of marriage
The state does not have shit.

The PEOPLE have a vested interest in mutual protection through the use of government and laws. That is the purpose of government and law in a democratic society.

The relationship of the government (ie:law) to parental rights is to protect children from parents who would do them harm. That is appropriate when a child is being abused and/or neglected. But when the state starts defining "protection from harm" as "we know better how to raise your child" then they are crossing a line that should not be crossed. Our government is not, nor was it ever intended to play the role of parent.

And no, the state does NOT have primacy in marriage. Where the hell do you come up with that? The law defines the limits of power of attorney spouses have over each other according to circumstances to include visitation rights in hospitals, the right to determine treatment for a spouse who is in a condition they cannot decide for themselves, etc. In all cases where society is involved in some manner with a person, the spouse takes precedence over other relationships unless the person in question specifies otherwise. (and in some cases even then the spouse takes precedence.

In short, no the government does not have any "rights". And recently government has been assuming WAY too much authority in matters of family. I don't give two fucking cents for "vested interest of the state" bullshit. When government assumes they do have the authority to override parents (except in cases of genuine abuse), it is time to prune back government, just as it is time to prune back government when they claim authority to negate constitutional rights in order to "protect" us -- ESPECIALLY if it is to protect us from ourselves.
 
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