Bravo to Bush for Stem-Cell Veto

MasterChief

Junior Member
:tongout: Bravo to Bush for Stem-Cell Veto


“If this bill would have become law, American taxpayers would, for the first time in our history, be compelled to fund the deliberate destruction of human embryos. And I’m not going to allow it.”

With those words last Wednesday, President Bush cast the first veto of his presidency, sending back to Congress the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act, which would have provided federal tax dollars to researchers who kill human embryos taken from in vitro fertilization clinics in order to extract their stem cell. Later that day, the House fell 51 votes short of overriding the President’s veto.

Bush deserves support and applause for his courageous defense of a fundamental principle. At a White House veto ceremony he gathered around him people who had benefited from therapies based on adult stem cells and “snowflake” babies born after families adopted frozen embryos from in vitro fertilization clinics.

“We must also remember that embryonic stem cells come from human embryos that are destroyed for their cells,” said Bush. “Each of these human embryos is a unique human life with inherent dignity and matchless value. We see that value in the children who are with us today. Each of these children began his or her life as a frozen embryo that was created for in vitro fertilization, but remained unused after the fertility treatments were complete. Each of these children was adopted while still an embryo, and has been blessed with the chance to grow up in a loving family.”

“These boys and girls are not spare parts,” the President said.

I asked members of Congress last week if taxpayers should be forced to pay for the killing of embryos.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems to be that the crux of this argument is whether taxpayers should be funding the killing of embryos. Can you tell me why it should be this way? Why taxpayers should be forced to fund this?

Sen. Tom Harkin (D.-Iowa): Okay, I am opposed to the death penalty but my tax dollars are used to execute people. I am morally opposed to the death penalty. What’s the difference? I mean, I happen to be morally opposed to a lot of things that our government does in many ways. But we pay our taxes and, so, I don’t buy that argument. There’s a lot of things I am opposed to, but I pay my taxes and the government uses the money for it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How exactly did we end up at this juncture where the U.S. federal government is poised to compel taxpayers to fund the killing of embryos, and two, can you be consistently pro-life and support the kind of action that’s happening in the Senate?

Rep. Joseph Pitts (R.-Pa.): I think it’s difficult for someone that is pro-life to support. I see a major inconsistency here. If you want to know how we got here, my sense of it is that how we got this information creates a false sense of hope. It’s imperative that we get the real debate down on this. We know for a fact there are cures with adult stem-cell research and technologies and therapies. There are no [indiscernible] applications at this time with the embryonic stem-cell approach. So why should we spend money, scarce federal money, right now on some hope that we might achieve something and spend time and money on something that is morally objectionable to many people throughout this country?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How exactly did we end up at this juncture where the U.S. federal government is poised to compel taxpayers to fund the killing of embryos, and two, can you be consistently pro-life and support the kind of action that’s happening in the Senate?

Rep. Mike Pence (R.-Ind.): It is simply morally wrong, as millions of pro-lifers agree as we do that life begins at conception, to fund this research that involves the destruction of a human embryo. I believe that historically, while Americans appear in most surveys to be evenly divided on the subject of abortion, 80% of Americans oppose the use of federal tax dollars to pay for abortion, and I believe that rightly understood that this debate when it properly focuses the attention of the American people on the facts that we are not asking, we’re not asking whether or not there should be stem cell research, we’re not even asking whether or not there should be embryonic stem-cell research. We’re simply asking who pays for it, and it is our belief that the American people understand asking billions of dollars from Americans who believe that life begins at conception to pay for the destruction of human embryos for research is morally wrong and the politics will take care of itself.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yesterday, on the Senate floor, you referred to an ideological group as the “theocracy” and said if they didn’t like stem cells, they just shouldn’t use it. But why should they have to pay for it through their tax dollars?

Sen. Charles Schumer (D.-N.Y.): The bottom line is here that this is about scientific progress and research, and we fund so many other different types of cures. This is a major cure, and we should move forward on scientific progress.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Because this is such a controversial subject, that people don’t agree with it, why should their tax dollars be used to fund the killing of these embryos?

Sen. Gordon Smith (R.-Ore.): I mean, I don’t agree with many ways in which my tax dollars are spent.

Does that make it okay?

Smith: But our process is that we’re a nation of law, and we have a way of making laws. And we the people, the majority, ultimately rule, and we are bound to obey the law.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Should the federal government compel taxpayers to fund the killing of embryos?

Rep. Dave Weldon (R.-Fla.) [who is a physician]: Absolutely not. It’s morally and ethically wrong. It’s also a really bad use of taxpayer dollars. Embryonic stem cells will probably never be shown to be successful in any clinical treatments because the very thing that makes them attractive for bench researchers to use them, the fact that they grow robustly, makes them genetically unstable in animal models. They form tumors, and it’s a grandiose waste of money, in my opinion, to elevate embryonic stem cells above adult stem cells for human clinical research. Now, you can learn a lot of science by studying embryonic stem cells, but you can do that with animal models. You don’t have to use human embryos to do that.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why is it imperative that taxpayers are going to be forced [to support] what many consider to be the killing of embryos?

Sen. Arlen Specter (R.-Pa.): Why are taxpayers going to be forced to support the embryonic stem-cell research? Well, there are many taxpayers that disagree with many governmental policies. You can start with the war in Iraq or you could take Amtrak, but we live in a society where the majority rules and we have very, very powerful public support and congressional support and time is on our side in embryonic stem-cell research. It is going to happen. And the sooner it happens the better, and I think President Bush will be applauded and will have a legacy if he is willing to reexamine his thinking on the subject and to agree with the hope that’s been so fervently expressed here routinely by the senators at this podium.

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R.-Utah): If I could just add to that. As a senator who believes that being pro-life is helping the living as well as the unborn, I can’t see for the life of me how we could justify 7,000-20,000 in vitro fertilized eggs being discarded as hospital waste every year as a justifiable thing. Why wouldn’t we use those eggs rather than having them become hospital waste and die? Why don’t we use them for the benefit of mankind, especially for our young children who have these dreaded diseases and have a lifetime ahead of them full of pain, distress and suffering? To me, I don’t think it’s pro-life to just accept that disposal of those 7,000-20,000 in vitro fertilized eggs and not doing everything we possibly can for people who are ill.
 
Well, he certainly didn't do it to get his poll numbers higher. I'll say this for Bush, he's consistent.
 

Attachments

  • laugh.jpg
    laugh.jpg
    7.6 KB · Views: 13
People have a misconception about this issue. They think that the veto means that stem cell research cannot go on. The reality is that federal funding of stem cell research was vetoed, and I agree with it.

All the crybabies who talki about corporate welfare should be bitching about Federally funded SCR. Its corporate welfare at its most raw. The federal government absorbing the costs of this research so the Pharm companies can reap the rewards?

Lets hear it.
 
I tend to agree that it is corporate welfare, but politically, I err on the side of wanting to know the number of the appropriation in dollars to decide whether I would have voted for it or not.

In principle, yes, I'm against any subsidies to industries. But, we do have a whole bunch of public ventures financed when the private sector isn't touching the matter.

If the data would suggest that ESCR is so new and out there that it's the genetic equivalent of putting a man on the moon and nobody is going to do it, that it requires the government's approval obviously to utilize the embryos and the amount of money is small enough, I would just as soon approve it than deny it.
 

Attachments

  • pilot.001.gif
    pilot.001.gif
    1.1 KB · Views: 0
It's one of those things that's sort of border-line-ish.

As an artist, I'm firmly opposed to subsidies and tax-credits for the arts, because I would rather cut taxes for all industries than make some work while others get political favors.

At the same time, certain examples of this are too small to worry about. Like the 20 million dollars they spent on the National Endowment for the Arts this year. It's not worth fighting over.

That's not even the value of the tax credits on one big blockbuster Hollywood show.
 
Hey masterchief...I thought you were an electronics technician, not a boatswain's mate. Why the crossed anchors? Where's the helium atom?
 
maineman said:
Hey masterchief...I thought you were an electronics technician, not a boatswain's mate. Why the crossed anchors? Where's the helium atom?

LOL. I think he just found any Master Chief icon to add as an avatar there maineman...
 
maineman said:
he sure didn't know anything about electronics for an E9 ET....I KNOW that
Yeah, he'll need a good 20000 posts on a politics forum before he really masters your level of electronics knowledge! ROFL
 
my knowledge of navy electronics comes from a career of using them...

just like your knowledge of cooking big macs comes from your professional experience.
 
I fully support federally funded research for embryonic stem cell research. This is something we can all benefit from and it ideally in a few years it will save lives and perhaps reverse the effects of degenerative diseases. Why is it cons are so willing to protect us only militarily, what about the health threats? I'd definitely prefer my federal tax monies be spent on this rather than rebuilding Iraq.
 
I think the solution is to cut back on what I call "not $hit sherlock" studies. I've seen grants that confirm the obvious: high sugar diets in children leads to obesity. Stuff like that can get scrubbed, but degenerative neurological diseases hinder more lives than terrorism has in the US.
 
Americans are such sheep, these unwanted embryos are destroyed everyday...

Because this is happening anyway why not make some good out of it... What BUSH did is not prohibiting a single embryo from being destroyed, its just preventing good from comming out of the destruction.

If you dont like the destruction of the embryos call for a law against that....

What fucking sheeple. If we fund NASA because of the advances we can get from space travel, its a no brainer that stem cell research should be funded!
 
Damocles said:
Well, he certainly didn't do it to get his poll numbers higher. I'll say this for Bush, he's consistent.


He did it to keep his numbers up with the WHACKO right! Its been his stragety all along... keep the WHACKOS enthused and they will come out and vote!
 
Jarod said:
Americans are such sheep, these unwanted embryos are destroyed everyday...

Because this is happening anyway why not make some good out of it... What BUSH did is not prohibiting a single embryo from being destroyed, its just preventing good from comming out of the destruction.

You act like he made it illegal. He didn't. He just made it so the Feds don't donate money to it. California does, other funding can be found elsewhere.

If you dont like the destruction of the embryos call for a law against that....

What fucking sheeple. If we fund NASA because of the advances we can get from space travel, its a no brainer that stem cell research should be funded!
I agree. Make a law against creation of embryos solely for destruction and research. Then fund ethical programs that take embryos slated for destruction and use them for research. Also heavily fund Umbilical lines and adult research. Machine-gun it...
 
Damocles said:
You act like he made it illegal. He didn't. He just made it so the Feds don't donate money to it. California does, other funding can be found elsewhere.


I agree. Make a law against creation of embryos solely for destruction and research. Then fund ethical programs that take embryos slated for destruction and use them for research. Also heavily fund Umbilical lines and adult research. Machine-gun it...



NO, its just a matter of fact that this research will not occure unless a government helps fund it, like they do with other major health issues. California, were it an independent nation, would likely be in the G8!
 
Jarod said:
NO, its just a matter of fact that this research will not occure unless a government helps fund it, like they do with other major health issues. California, were it an independent nation, would likely be in the G8!

You're noeing me like you didn't read the second part of the post. It was close to being overturned as well. Real close. In another two years we'll have our funding for this research.
 
Back
Top