Bravo to Bush for Stem-Cell Veto
- Thread starter MasterChief
- Start date
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Jarod said:
OMG... Puleeze? WHAT sick and dying people could have been saved through federal funding of embryonic stem cell research? Please tell us!
Dixie said:
We dont know yet, and I guess we never will... But most respected in the field say untold numbers of sick and dying would likely find a solution to the ailments that afflict them.
Thats like saying, "Puleeze? WHAT benefits could have been found through federal funding of NASA!" Dont be so obtuse.
TheDanold
Unimatrix
I don't have anything against the research, but I object to government funding it. Remember that with government doing less, you have less taxes and more money that people can use for funding research. The facts bear that out on drug research for example:Jarod said:
"America is outspending Europe on medical research and development and benefiting from that. One way of measuring that is by counting the number of things called new molecular entities that have been produced. From 1993 to 1997, Europe developed 81 NMEs to America's 48; in 1998 to 2002, America produced 85 NMEs to Europe's 44."
America has half the population of Europe and developed almost double the amount of discoveries in drugs as left-wing Europe did.
"Generic drugs are cheap in America and not so cheap in Europe"
"medicine costs make up only about one-tenth of overall health care spending. Little of the increases in year to year spending on prescriptions from increases in the prices patients pay; most of it comes from increases in how much medicine Americans are getting"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/16/opinion/meyer/main674561.shtml
H
honorknght
Guest
You're again assuming that treatments actually would come out of it that WOULD NOT come out of other stem cell research.robdastud said:
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Jarod said:
No, it's more like saying... some pinheads said if we get naked and dance in the rain, we'll never die... no telling how many lives could be saved if it weren't for uptight religious righties who don't want to see us naked!
You are making a false claim, one that is not substantiated at all, and you expect people to just accept your theories and assume them to be factual. Most credible researchers I've heard speak on the topic, say there have been some major breakthroughs with adult and core blood stem cells, and that is where cures and benefits are being realized, not through the embyonic stem cells. So, let's be honest about it, and stop trying to be over-dramatic with the claims here.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Jarod said:
Well... the truth of the matter is, no renowned experts have given any guarantee that embryonic stem cell research would provide a cure for anything.
So, it's the same thing, essentially.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Look, Jarod... here is what you posted:
untill then Bush and the SOCIAL RIGHT have lots of sick an dying people to account for
How is Bush and the social right responsible for the sick and dying who aren't guaranteed any sort of cure through federal funding of embryonic stem cells? It's just a flat out FALSE CLAIM. You are trying to pretend that Bush has blocked a certain cure for the sick and dying, and that's just not the case. I'm fine with having an honest debate and dialogue about SCR, but when your side starts flinging out these wild and false claims to garner sympathy, it's just pathetic and intellectually dishonest.
untill then Bush and the SOCIAL RIGHT have lots of sick an dying people to account for
How is Bush and the social right responsible for the sick and dying who aren't guaranteed any sort of cure through federal funding of embryonic stem cells? It's just a flat out FALSE CLAIM. You are trying to pretend that Bush has blocked a certain cure for the sick and dying, and that's just not the case. I'm fine with having an honest debate and dialogue about SCR, but when your side starts flinging out these wild and false claims to garner sympathy, it's just pathetic and intellectually dishonest.
Tax money is taken from us to go to the killing of other human beings, as with what is going on in Iraq.
These embryos were sceduled to be incinerated, killed.
If I were the embryo and I somehow ...
....had the choice of being killed off just because my parents didn't want to have anymore children, or being killed in a manner that would someday save many lives, I'd much rather be killed off via embryonic research vs being killed in an incinerator..burnt alive....just because mom and dad had their needs filled already....
Outside of the body, the embryo is as good as dead, even before they decide to incinerate it.
Parents using fertility methods have to make a choice, as to what to do with the rest of their offspring, the rest of their fertilized embryos....parents have to sign a release paper to get them destroyed right now.
These parents would have had a choice of incinerating (or some other method to destroy) them, or to allow these embryos to go towards research...some parents might find incinerating them more ethical, some may find the research route more ethical....but ultimately, no funded research would have been done on these embryos without their parents consent to do such.
These are humans and the parents must give permission to how their excess offspring will be disposed of....whether they want their excess embryos to be disposed of, or allow them to be available for adoption by others.
The whole practice seems wrong...kind of barbaric to me, especially if you do believe that life begins at conception....
But even as a pro lifer, I tend to believe that a life worth keeping begins once it is attached to the uterus....it MUST be attached to the uterus in order for a woman to be "pregnant" with child.....in order for any child to survive and continue living....it must be in the womb and growing....at least at this time in our lives.
I think I support using these embryos, destined for death, for stem cell research....because I believe it will save alot more lives than they would if they were to be released to the normal route of destruction.
care
care
These embryos were sceduled to be incinerated, killed.
If I were the embryo and I somehow ...
....had the choice of being killed off just because my parents didn't want to have anymore children, or being killed in a manner that would someday save many lives, I'd much rather be killed off via embryonic research vs being killed in an incinerator..burnt alive....just because mom and dad had their needs filled already....Outside of the body, the embryo is as good as dead, even before they decide to incinerate it.
Parents using fertility methods have to make a choice, as to what to do with the rest of their offspring, the rest of their fertilized embryos....parents have to sign a release paper to get them destroyed right now.
These parents would have had a choice of incinerating (or some other method to destroy) them, or to allow these embryos to go towards research...some parents might find incinerating them more ethical, some may find the research route more ethical....but ultimately, no funded research would have been done on these embryos without their parents consent to do such.
These are humans and the parents must give permission to how their excess offspring will be disposed of....whether they want their excess embryos to be disposed of, or allow them to be available for adoption by others.
The whole practice seems wrong...kind of barbaric to me, especially if you do believe that life begins at conception....
But even as a pro lifer, I tend to believe that a life worth keeping begins once it is attached to the uterus....it MUST be attached to the uterus in order for a woman to be "pregnant" with child.....in order for any child to survive and continue living....it must be in the womb and growing....at least at this time in our lives.
I think I support using these embryos, destined for death, for stem cell research....because I believe it will save alot more lives than they would if they were to be released to the normal route of destruction.
care
care
Care4all said:Tax money is taken from us to go to the killing of other human beings, as with what is going on in Iraq.
These embryos were sceduled to be incinerated, killed.
If I were the embryo and I somehow ...
Outside of the body, the embryo is as good as dead, even before they decide to incinerate it.
Parents using fertility methods have to make a choice, as to what to do with the rest of their offspring, the rest of their fertilized embryos....parents have to sign a release paper to get them destroyed right now.
These parents would have had a choice of incinerating (or some other method to destroy) them, or to allow these embryos to go towards research...some parents might find incinerating them more ethical, some may find the research route more ethical....but ultimately, no funded research would have been done on these embryos without their parents consent to do such.
These are humans and the parents must give permission to how their excess offspring will be disposed of....whether they want their excess embryos to be disposed of, or allow them to be available for adoption by others.
The whole practice seems wrong...kind of barbaric to me, especially if you do believe that life begins at conception....
But even as a pro lifer, I tend to believe that a life worth keeping begins once it is attached to the uterus....it MUST be attached to the uterus in order for a woman to be "pregnant" with child.....in order for any child to survive and continue living....it must be in the womb and growing....at least at this time in our lives.
I think I support using these embryos, destined for death, for stem cell research....because I believe it will save alot more lives than they would if they were to be released to the normal route of destruction.
care
care
Exactly, and bush is preventing that, in the name of some morality most Americans dont subscribe to....!
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
I'm going to have to disagree with you, at least in principle.LadyT said:
It's all too easy for the press to misrepresent legitimate scientific studies as simplistic or stupid. Remember this rule of thumb: any appeal to "common sense" in the media is almost certainly really an appeal to superstition.
It seems obvious, doesn't it, that a diet high in sugar leads to obesity? It's exactly that sort of assumption, however, that any honest and methodical scientist can't make. That's the way science works.
Now, I *do* agree that there are priorities, especially in federal funding. I also agree that, as far as federal funding is concerned, stem cell research is probably one of the highest priorities we should have right now. The promise is enormous yet we know very little so far. At the same time the research is extremely expensive and difficult for private institutions to fund on their own.
I disagree Ornot, there are definitely no $hit sherlock studies and I'm in a 100% agreement with you that there are priorities. Federal funds to subsidize health threats is #1 on my list. Studies that merely confirm generally accepted scientific theories and facts that have already been established should not be federally funded. I wish I had the website, but I think if you saw the study I was referring to, you'd say, "No $hit Sherlock" too.