Chris Hedges: The Unraveling of the American Empire | Consortium News

[Truth Detector]

Anyone calling America and "EMPIRE" is an uneducated dumbass.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Anyone calling America and "EMPIRE" is an uneducated dumbass.

Wrong Again.

 

[Truth Detector]

Wrong Again.

For uneducated and illiterate morons:

empire
[ em-pahyuhr]
noun

a group of nations or peoples ruled over by an emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or government: usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom, as the former British Empire, French Empire, Russian Empire, Byzantine Empire, or Roman Empire.

So calling America an empire is moronic and I would be happy to debate that with any simple-minded twit who gets their information from the PHONY media or DNC.

 

[Scott]

Let's take a look at what happened during the U.S.'s invasion of that country:

**
It's been 40 years since the United States invaded the Dominican Republic, and my native country is still suffering the effects of that misguided intervention.

On April 28, 1965, 42,000 American troops invaded the Dominican Republic. By the end of the invasion, more than 3,000 Dominicans and 31 American servicemen had lost their lives. And democracy suffered another setback.

The invasion was not an aberration since the United States had been interfering in the affairs of my homeland since the turn of the century.

The people of the Dominican Republic were trying to restore Juan Bosch to the presidency. Two years before, in 1963, Bosch, the head of the Dominican Revolutionary Party and a leading writer and intellectual, had won the first free presidential election in 30 years. But his pro-Castro sentiments and the uneasiness he inspired in business sectors fueled a military coup seven months later that installed a three-man military junta.

President Lyndon Johnson sent U.S. Marines to the island to support the junta and to place Joaquin Balaguer back in power. Balaguer had succeeded Gen. Rafael Leonidas Trujillo, the brutal dictator who ruled the country with Washington's blessing for 31 years.

Trujillo used the U.S.-trained National Guard to banish, torture or kill his opponents.

As President Franklin Roosevelt's secretary of state, Cordell Hull famously said of Trujillo: "He may be a son-of-a-bitch, but he is our son-of-a-bitch."
**

Source:
40 years later, U.S. invasion still haunts Dominican Republic | The Progressive

Not quite the success story you make it out to be, unless your idea of success is the restoration of brutal dictators. I think U.S. Major General Smedley Butler said it well back in 1935:

**
War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.
**

That's the radical Leftist version.

I'd say it's a realist version. Can you point out a single error in anything said above?

A more centrist one would be that the US prevented the Dominican Republic from becoming another Cuba.

Cuba certainly has its flaws, but one thing it can definitely say is that it's not under the thumb of the U.S.

Since Cuba has one of the shittyist economies and is one of the most repressive countries in the Caribbean, and by comparison the Dominican Republic is doing much better, it would seem to me that that invasion worked to the Dominican Republic's benefit. Bosch would have taken the Dominican Republic down the same path Hugo Chavez did in Venezuela, much to the detriment of the whole nation.

You seem to be ignoring the part that the U.S. has played in countries such as Cuba and Venezuela. For Cuba, here's a recent article:

US Sanctions Are Brutal and Inhumane. And They Don’t Work. | jacobin.com

As to Venezuela, it looks like the former U.S. backed guy there has recently fled the country:

Juan Guaido and failed regime change in Venezuela | cbc.ca

 

[Scott]

twitter.com/PostLeftWatch/status/1690467453518991360

Just skimmed it, but looks like a good interview of Chris Hedges and how to fight against the true enemies of the U.S.

 

[Scott]

Al Qaeda was hardly the be-all, end-all of terrorist groups...

That's for sure. A little history on the Al-Qaida name:

**
Fascinatingly, the acclaimed biography of Bin Laden by Yossef Bodansky, director of the US Congressional Task Force on Terrorism, hardly mentions the name al-Qaida. Written before September 11, it does so only to emphasise that al-Qaida is the wrong name altogether: "A lot of money is being spent on a rapidly expanding web of Islamist charities and social services, including the recently maligned al-Qaida. Bin Laden's first charity, al-Qaida, never amounted to more than a loose umbrella framework for supporting like-minded individuals and their causes. In the aftermath of the 1998 bombings in Nairobi and Dar-es-Salaam, al-Qaida has been portrayed in the west as a cohesive terrorist organisation, but it is not."

There's no doubt that the name came to prominence in part because America needed to conceptualise its enemy. This is certainly what Bodansky thinks now. "In the aftermath of September 11," he says, "both governments and the media in the west had to identify an entity we should hate and fight against."
**

Source:
What is the origin of the name al-Qaida? | The Guardian



Straight from the web page of George W. Bush's archives page eh? 2 of the 6 bullet points there are from 1985 or earlier. As to the claim that Saddam tried to assassinate George W. Bush's father, there's strong evidence that the story was fabricated:

So, Did Saddam Hussein Try to Kill Bush's Dad? | Common Dreams

As to Abu Nidal, you might want to do a little questioning as to who he really worked for:

Abu Nidal, notorious Palestinian mercenary, 'was a US spy' | independent.co.uk

Doesn't change a world of what I said...

Agreed. I was just pointing out some information that you seem to have overlooked.

 

[Scott]

The article for which this thread is named after is a bit over 2 years old, but the subject of America's decline is one I was just discussing in another thread.

It's stupid to post articles by Chris Hedges. He is an ardent Marxist who HATES the US

Whoa there. Where did you get this notion that Hedges is an "ardent Marxist", let alone that he hates the U.S.?

Hedges has apparently actually specifically denied being a Marxist, according to a quote in Wikipedia:

**
69 "Chris Hedges Interviewed at NYSEC". Youtube. Archived from the original on September 12, 2019. Retrieved June 28, 2021. I'm not a Marxist, in that—I don't like labels—but I'm probably an anarchist.
**

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hedges

And I've seen absolutely no evidence that he "hates the U.S.". For starters, he's American and I've never seen any indication that he's wanted to leave the U.S.

 

[Scott]

Phoenyx, you should have just posted that you read another article by Chris Hedges in which he froths at the mouth due to his HATRED for the US, and that's all you would have had to write. Everything in that article is dishonest hyperbole that provides no information.

I'm going to presume that you are a US HATER as well, because only someone who HATES the US would find any medicinal value in that article.

He’s come right out and said it.

I've said no such thing. Disagreeing with U.S. government decisions doesn't make one a "US hater".

 

[Scott]

Chris Hedges is loony and paranoid. He believes that defense contractors are the legislative branch of the United States, not Congress. He believes that Russia's only desire since the Iron Curtain fell has been to form a security alliance with the US, but that the US wouldn't have it, being only interested in creating enemies and wars lest the US defense contractors lose their legislative powers to expand the US war machine.

Do you have any evidence to back up any of these assertions?

 

[Scott]

For uneducated and illiterate morons:

empire
[ em-pahyuhr]
noun

a group of nations or peoples ruled over by an emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or government: usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom, as the former British Empire, French Empire, Russian Empire, Byzantine Empire, or Roman Empire.

So calling America an empire is moronic and I would be happy to debate that with any simple-minded twit who gets their information from the PHONY media or DNC.

All it took was a quick internet search to find even a mainstream outlet that suggests that the U.S. is in fact an empire, even if it's attempting to hide the fact. Here's an article from a few years ago on the subject:

How the US has hidden its empire | The Guardian

 

[anonymoose]

I've said no such thing. Disagreeing with U.S. government decisions doesn't make one a "US hater".

I understand. I don’t hate Canadians but their government sucks. I mean really sucks. I hate your gubmint.

You and #10 really need to get over the why of how the “special military operation“ (lol) came about. That’s in the past. Be in the present. It’s a war for gods sake.
Fact is that Russia (their government, which is basically Putin) overreached trying to annex all of Ukraine. They fucked up and Now they target civilians, as if that’s going to subjugate the Ukrainians. They stirred up a hornets nest.
Sorry pal but I’m all in with helping the Ukrainians, even if they’re corrupt. It’s none of Russia’s business.
This is a war about putins ego.

 

[IBDaMann]

Do you have any evidence to back up any of these assertions?

I'm not going to do your research for you. Have you looked into Chris Hedges in the slightest? I'm guessing that you haven't.

First, go perform your due diligence and let me know if you have any questions about anything you learn.

 

[IBDaMann]

Whoa there. Where did you get this notion that Hedges is an "ardent Marxist",

Whoa there. How do you not know all this?

let alone that he hates the U.S.?

He actively works to cause the US to fail. Go actually research Chris Hedges and you'll see quite clearly where I get this "notion."

Hedges has apparently actually specifically denied being a Marxist, according to a quote in Wikipedia:

You never read this, did you? You never did any sort of research into Chris Hedges, did you?

I see that you cited Wikipedia. I can see why you are so confused about so many things. Wikipedia is not an authoritative source for anything and is awash in errors. Anyone citing Wikipedia is a moron who is going to be terribly confused on whatever topic is being discussed. You should only reference authoritative sources.

Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.

 

[Scott]

I've said no such thing. Disagreeing with U.S. government decisions doesn't make one a "US hater".

I understand. I don’t hate Canadians but their government sucks. I mean really sucks. I hate your gubmint.

I'm not a huge fan of the Canadian government myself. One of the reasons I decided to move to Mexico. Don't get me wrong, I think the Canadian government does have some good things. If my whole family hadn't moved to Mexico, I think I'd probably still be in Canada. I'd been thinking of leaving for a bit, but what got me to leave when I did was Trudeau's government had just announced they were going to ban commercial airflight travel to those who didn't get covid vaccines, with no announcement of when that policy would end. Hopped on a plane soon after that. They got rid of that policy around 8 months in, but I prefer it here in Mexico with my father. I'm dual citizen, Canadian/Mexican, so not a problem staying down here legally speaking.

You and #10 really need to get over the why of how the “special military operation“ (lol) came about.

Who's #10? As to calling it a special military operation, Ukraine was conducting military operations against the Donbass region long before Russia started its own military operation. Here's an article from December 2021:

Putin: Ukraine is preparing a military operation in Donbas | uawire.org

I strongly suspect that the main reason that Putin's been so adamant about calling his involvement in the Ukrainian war a military operation is to echo the same words that Ukraine's been using to justify its killing of its own population for the 8 years prior to 2022.

I guess it's understandable that you'd like to avoid these inconvenient truths and try to get me to just "get over" them. I imagine it messes with your narrative that "Russia bad/Ukraine good". The problem is that this would be doing a great disservice to struggle that the mainly ethnic Russian and Russian speaking Eastern Ukraine have been going through for the aforementioned 8 years.

Fact is that Russia (their government, which is basically Putin) overreached trying to annex all of Ukraine.

Even at this later juncture, Russia still hasn't said that their goal is to annex all of Ukraine. If the Ukrainian government in Kyiv had any sense, they'd get to the peace table as soon as possible and try to work out a deal wherein they get to keep what they still control of Ukraine. The longer they go on with their delusions of taking back what they've lost, the more likely it is that Russia will take even more.

They fucked up and Now they target civilians, as if that’s going to subjugate the Ukrainians.

The war has certainly gotten messier since Russia's entrance near the start of 2022. That being said, I haven't seen any evidence that Russia has been targetting civilians, only infrastructure that is used by civilians. They weren't even doing -that- until Ukraine bombed the Crimean bridge. On the other side of the fence, I've seen plenty of evidence that Ukraine's military has deliberately targetted not just civilian infrastructure, but civilians themselves. An article that gets into this here:

The Ukrainian Army has made life hell for the people of Artyomovsk | Donbass Insider

They stirred up a hornets nest.

I'd say it's NATO and its cronies in Ukraine who woke the slumbering bear.

Sorry pal but I’m all in with helping the Ukrainians, even if they’re corrupt.

I'm all for helping the Ukrainians as well, but I don't think the way to do that is to keep funelling money to henchmen of the U.S. in Kyiv, as Zelensky once so aptly put it. Quoting him from his comedian days, back when Obama was U.S. President, and Biden was Vice President and point man in Ukraine:

**
Our President, the most important one, Barack Obama, has promised that we will join NATO soon, as an American Henchman of course.
**

Source:
Neo-Nazis in Ukraine. Comedians are often more truthful than politicians | Open Parachute

Ah Zelensky, he played his henchman role well, but doesn't look like he'll be getting into NATO any time soon if at all. Instead, his reward for transitioning from his peace mandate to a war mandate is just thousands of Ukrainian dead.

It’s none of Russia’s business.

Perhaps Russia said something similar when it was arming Cuba with nukes. Americans weren't persuaded. It stands to reason that Russians are similarly non plussed now that NATO continues to tighten its grip on the nations next to it. Russia's been a lot calmer about nations joining NATO next to its borders than I imagine the U.S. would be if the Warsaw Pact had extended to Mexico or Canada, but I can understand that they'd draw the line at a country that had been killing ethnic Russians and Russian speakers for the past 8 years.

 

[Scott]

Chris Hedges is loony and paranoid. He believes that defense contractors are the legislative branch of the United States, not Congress. He believes that Russia's only desire since the Iron Curtain fell has been to form a security alliance with the US, but that the US wouldn't have it, being only interested in creating enemies and wars lest the US defense contractors lose their legislative powers to expand the US war machine.

Do you have any evidence to back up any of these assertions?

I'm not going to do your research for you.

I wasn't asking you to. I was asking if you had any evidence for your own claims. I'm beginning to think you don't.

Have you looked into Chris Hedges in the slightest?

I've read his Wikipedia page several times, if you're looking for mainstream sources. I've also read many of his articles and I've found them to be very evidence based.

 

[Scott]

Whoa there. Where did you get this notion that Hedges is an "ardent Marxist",

Whoa there. How do you not know all this?

You seem to think that people will believe whatever you say without evidence. Perhaps that works for you sometimes, but it won't work with me.

He actively works to cause the US to fail.

Yet another unsubstantiated assertion.

Go actually research Chris Hedges and you'll see quite clearly where I get this "notion."

What you're doing there is asking your ideological opponent to do your homework for you. If you can't provide the evidence for your own claims, then they are simply unsubstantiated assertions.

You never read this, did you?

No, I hadn't. Aside from the fact that the article was written 15 years ago, I'm guessing you think that that article substantiates your claim that Chris Hedges is a Marxist. I find it rather sad that many people on the right side of the political spectrum seem to be unaware that socialism is rather broad. I'll quote Wikipedia's page on the term to get you up to speed:

**
Socialism is a political philosophy and movement encompassing a wide range of economic and social systems[1] which are characterised by social ownership of the means of production,[2][3][4] as opposed to private ownership.[5][6][4] As a term, it describes the economic, political, and social theories and movements associated with the implementation of such systems.[7] Social ownership can be public, community, collective, cooperative,[8][9][10] or employee.[11][12] While no single definition encapsulates the many types of socialism,[13] social ownership is the one common element,[6][14] and is considered left-wing.[15] Different types of socialism vary based on the role of markets and planning in resource allocation, on the structure of management in organizations, and from below or from above approaches, with some socialists favouring a party, state, or technocratic-driven approach. Socialists disagree on whether government, particularly existing government, is the correct vehicle for change.[16][17]
**

You see that bit about socialists disagreeing? It's kind of like how Christians have disagreements as well. Marxists are certainly a -type- of socialist, just like Protestants are a type of Christian, but saying that all Christians are Protestants is just a -tad- off the mark. Perhaps you don't know any Christians with strong views on their particular brand, but if you did, you'd know what I mean. Same goes for socialists.

I see that you cited Wikipedia.

I did yes. Specifically, I cited a passage wherein Chris Hedges specifically states that he isn't a Marxist. I wonder why you left that part out?

Wikipedia is not an authoritative source for anything and is awash in errors.

I actually agree with that. In this case, however, Wikipedia is on the money. Here's their original source material, wherein Chris Hedges clearly states that he's not a Marxist. The youtube video is set to the very moment he makes the statement that he's not a Marxist in Wikipedia, but it doesn't seem to work here, so the moment is at 57:03:

Anyone citing Wikipedia is a moron [snip]

Come now IBD, do you really think that personal attacks will add anything of value to this debate? As I already stated, Wikipedia certainly has mistakes, but it's also a great starting point on many subjects. I recently watched a video from a physicist who does videos on Youtube who got into how to research things properly. One of the things she points out is that while Wikipedia shouldn't be the endpoint of any serious research, it's fine to be the starting point. Take a look at her whole video if you like:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sabine+do+your+own+research

 

[IBDaMann]

No, I hadn't.

Surprise, surprise. There's probably no end to the list of things you haven't seen/read in your complete avoidance of performing any research or completing your due diligence. So I am going to ignore everything you have written thus far and advise you to do a modicum of research before you go attacking people out of your ignorance. You seem to think that people will believe whatever you say without evidence. Perhaps that works for you sometimes, but it won't work with me.

I find it rather sad that many people on the right side of the political spectrum seem to be unaware that socialism is rather broad.

My experience is that Marxism is perceived to be just as broad a religion as Christianity.

I'll quote Wikipedia's page on the term to get you up to speed:

Socialism is a religion that just doesn't work, with a congregation of devout losers who, in solidarity with others of their faith, just don't work.

I wonder why you left that part out?

I ignore all Wikipedia quotations. Wikipedia is a non-authoritative source that is awash in errors. Additionally, the people in charge infuse political disinformation. Only morons would cite Wikipedia as a reference.

I actually agree with that. In this case, however, Wikipedia is on the money.

You can cite Wikipedia and Christians can cite the Bible, and neither are authoritative to me.

Come now IBD, do you really think that personal attacks will add anything of value to this debate?

Are you trying to shame me into accepting Wikipedia as an authoritative source? Would you care to wager on your success?

Morons send money to a Nigerian banker, or pay exclusively in gift cards to Indian call-center scammers, or rush to "invest" in an off-shore cryptocurrency that opened yesterday, or cite Wikipedia as a reference. But you are going to try to shame me into "recognizing" it all as sheer genius, yes?

You're on notice: If you cite Wikipedia as a reference, you're a moron. Period. I'm not the only one who will summarily ignore your Wikipedia references so they won't even be considered. Independent research with accompanying critical reasoning is the way to go. Also, if you have any SPECIFIC questions, try asking.

By the way, don't think that I didn't notice your little two-step whereby you rush to defend Chris Hedges from "accusations" that he is a Marxist ... and then rush to defend and to proselytize Marxism. I did notice.

As I already stated, Wikipedia certainly has mistakes, but ...

Sorry, I have Wikipedia on "Ignore." I recommend you do the same.

It's perfectly fine to reference authoritative sources that you garner from Wikipedia. Nobody does that. You didn't do that. You quoted right out of Wikipedia and I ignored it right out of sight and out of mind.

 

[Hawkeye10]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1695556305476337821

Couple things:

�� A mere 24 hours after Argentina was approved to be member of BRICS, Brazil proposes using the Chinese Yuan to secure guarantees for Brazilian exports to Argentina; this as the dollar’s influence has declined drastically in the country. Under this proposal the Bank of Brazil would oversee the conversion of yuan back into reais. All countries win & Argentina & Brazil reduce dependence on the western currency while helping to stabilize their own economies.

��This proves the �� dollar’s no longer king �� & is a significant & clear trend. And of course the BRICS New Development Bank will play a key role & this will happen in more & more countries. NATO knows this so they’re big mad.

But hey, at least Gunther (President of the NATO European Development Committee) is being honest about calling to “dismantle” Russia, Iran & Brazil, because crushing countries who don’t do what they’re told is exactly NATO’s ENTIRE purpose for existing. Appreciate the honesty but they should be worried.

Dedollarization is INEVITABLE.

Take the L NATO.

 

[Scott]

You never read this, did you?

No, I hadn't.

Surprise, surprise. There's probably no end to the list of things you haven't seen/read in your complete avoidance of performing any research or completing your due diligence.

The fact that I didn't read an article from Chris Hedges written 15 years ago doesn't mean much. I strongly suspect that I've read a lot more of his articles than you have.

I am going to ignore everything you have written thus far and advise you to do a modicum of research before you go attacking people out of your ignorance.

I'm not the one who engaged in personal attacks, that was you.

You seem to think that people will believe whatever you say without evidence. Perhaps that works for you sometimes, but it won't work with me.

Very funny . Let's get back to the actual evidence, shall we?

I find it rather sad that many people on the right side of the political spectrum seem to be unaware that socialism is rather broad.

My experience is that Marxism is perceived to be just as broad a religion as Christianity.

Again, you seem to be confusing Marxism with Socialism. That's akin to confusing Protestantism with Christianity. Despite what many on the right seem to believe, Socialists are not all Marxists. The fact that Chris Hedges is on record as specifically stating he's not a Marxist strongly suggests that he isn't one.

I'll quote Wikipedia's page on the term to get you up to speed:

Socialism is a religion

I have yet to find any serious source that classifies socialism as a religion. If you believe you have such a source, by all means present it. You've made it clear that you don't like Wikipedia, but Wikipedia is hardly the only source that defines socialism as something other than a religion. Here's the first definition of the American Heritage Dictionary, 5th Edition:

**
Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

**

Source:
https://www.wordnik.com/words/socialism

Socialism [snip] just doesn't work

That really depends on how you define socialism. Forbes wrote an interesting article on the subject back in 2020. Quoting from it:

**
YouGov has released the results of an interesting poll that gauges Americans' thoughts and feelings about socialism. The term has been used by Republicans to describe Democrats for decades but it has become firmly engrained in modern U.S. politics as a near omnipresent and toxic element of GOP attacks on their opponents. Democratic socialists such as Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Rashida Tlaib have been accused by the right of planning to lead America down the path of a Venezuela style economic catastrophe, even though their core policies are more aligned with those of Western European countries such as Denmark and Sweden. Both nations operate under a capitalist system though they have sweeping social policies such as universal healthcare which gets paid for through higher taxes.
**

 

[Scott]

I did yes. Specifically, I cited a passage wherein Chris Hedges specifically states that he isn't a Marxist. I wonder why you left that part out?

I ignore all Wikipedia quotations. Wikipedia is a non-authoritative source that is awash in errors.

As I've said before, I agree that Wikipedia has errors, sometimes serious ones. But as youtuber and physicist Sabine Hossenfelder points out, while Wikipedia may not be the best in terms of primary source material, it's a great place to start out. I would have posted her video on doing one's own research in the last post, but one can only post a single video per post, so I just put in a search link where it could be easily found. No video in this post, so I'll put the video itself this time around for anyone who's interested:

Additionally, the people in charge infuse political disinformation.

That definitely seems to be the case sometimes. However, this doesn't change the fact that Wikipedia frequently has some good material.

Only morons would cite Wikipedia as a reference.

There you go again with the personal attacks. Once again, as Sabine mentions, it's fine as a starting point reference. One can always go to the source material of any Wikipedia article once one is sufficiently interested in the subject.

I actually agree with that. In this case, however, Wikipedia is on the money.

You can cite Wikipedia and Christians can cite the Bible, and neither are authoritative to me.

Considering the fact that I'm not a Christian, I think it's highly unlikely that I'll be citing the bible to you. As to Wikipedia, again, the key is to look at the source material of any given article if one is interested enough in the subject. Speaking of which, I did just that in the case of Wikipedia's claim that Chris Hedges' has denied being a Marxist. It's all their in post #76 if you care to look.

Anyone citing Wikipedia is a moron [snip]

Come now IBD, do you really think that personal attacks will add anything of value to this debate?

Are you trying to shame me into accepting Wikipedia as an authoritative source?

No, I'm just trying to point out that engaging in personal attacks isn't going to make your points more persuasive.

As I already stated, Wikipedia certainly has mistakes, but it's also a great starting point on many subjects.

Sorry, I have Wikipedia on "Ignore."

I think you're making this more difficult than it has to be, but Wikipedia certainly isn't the only source I use.

It's perfectly fine to reference authoritative sources that you garner from Wikipedia. Nobody does that. You didn't do that.

Actually I did. That youtube interview of Chris Hedges that I linked to in post 76? I got that from Wikipedia's source.