Church condemns abortion performed on raped girl, 11

I agree, but my remaining silent or even allowing the law to show compassion to a victim of rape is not taking a life. I believe in the law being compassionate and realize that I cannot foresee every situation.

Hypothetically if you and I are both lawmakers and without constitutional considerations would you vote yea or nay on a bill I wrote that would make all abortion illegal except to protect the life of the mother? You don't have to loudly proclaim support just your yea or nay.

I'm not pro-choice and this does not make sense to me in the least.


My bad I didn't catch that mistake I meant to say pro-life. Re read the question with that in its place.
 
Ok, cool. You white dudes hash this out, and when you get something out of the committee, let us gals know what the deal is.

Thanks!
 
You white dudes hash this out, and when you get something out of the committee, let us gals know what the deal is.

Why do you say this?
 
Yeah, because being men you can't have an opinion on whether a fetus is actually a human life...
 
IHateGovernment said:
You white dudes hash this out, and when you get something out of the committee, let us gals know what the deal is.

Why do you say this?
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Because I came in and a bunch of white men (actually, I'm not certain you're all white, hyperbole on my part?) were hashing out what would and would not constitute acceptable compromises on abortion.

And it was very funny.

I especially liked Immie's classic, and rather mythical "Mommy doesn't want the baby". It's always "Mommy" who doesn't want the baby in the anti-choicer's mind. And they try and invoke, and quite possibly actually belive, the image of "Daddy" hanging onto the cold, muderous, frigid "Mommy's" leg as she marches off to the abortion clinic, while snicking, and he is begging her "Pleae, please don't abort my baby. you won't have to do anything, I'll pay for every thing and take care of it, please don't do it".

And that, for women who live out in the real world? Even funnier.

Regardless, if you can't see the patronization inherent in six men hashing out abortion rights, that's because you're on the inside. From where I'm sitting, it's funny stuff.
 
If you cannot see the matronization from women who believe that men cannot have opinions as to the welfare of a fetus then it must be because you are on the "inside"...

It may be that people as a whole can have valid opinions regardless of sex. It's like people who think that white people cannot possibly represent a black person in Congress. Rubbish. People can have valid opinions on many subjects regardless of not having active mammary glands.
 
Because I came in and a bunch of white men (actually, I'm not certain you're all white, hyperbole on my part?) were hashing out what would and would not constitute acceptable compromises on abortion.

You would be wrong. However from your statement I will assume you are white. As it is often the case that white people view whiteness as a default and automatic and that minorities are more of a special flavor.

It is a hallmark of cultural hegemony to assume whiteness, maleness, and straightness as an automatic default when no information is given.

I especially liked Immie's classic, and rather mythical "Mommy doesn't want the baby". It's always "Mommy" who doesn't want the baby in the anti-choicer's mind. And they try and invoke, and quite possibly actually belive, the image of "Daddy" hanging onto the cold, muderous, frigid "Mommy's" leg as she marches off to the abortion clinic, while snicking, and he is begging her "Pleae, please don't abort my baby. you won't have to do anything, I'll pay for every thing and take care of it, please don't do it".

On an ineresting side note are you aware that the first wave of feminists Anthony, Mott and Stanton opposed abortion because they saw it as a way for men to control women?

Regardless, if you can't see the patronization inherent in six men hashing out abortion rights, that's because you're on the inside. From where I'm sitting, it's funny stuff.

I will be sure to laugh at you should you ever offer an opinion on racial issues then.
 
Only Rob is allowed to talk about issues pertinent to homosexuality.

Only Tiana, Honrknight and myself can talk about race.
 
Only I can talk about Eastern Religions... Man, this is starting to get fun!
 
What a boring site this would be if we were obligated to refrain from speaking about issues that affect a group that we are not part of.
 
Darla said:
Ok, cool. You white dudes hash this out, and when you get something out of the committee, let us gals know what the deal is.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Darla .. you know each day you are a rising force on the idiot meter.. dontcha?

What do White Dudes have to do with anything when discussing abortion .. what are you implying about this.. lets see if you really know what you are talking about .... lets ge into a demographic discussion on abortion ....
 
IHateGovernment said:
Outside of consideration for her age which Damo is correct is a life threatening issue I have a problem with those who address the abortion question with the issue of rape.

I am pro-life (special kind most know my position here). I don't dislike pro-choice automatically. Most are good people who have a different assessment of what constitutes a human or what is a reasonable burden the state can put upon you.

The people I do not like though are those who are pro-life supposedly but support abortion if the woman is raped. This stance totally negates the idea the human life should be protected and that is why abortion must be prohibited.

Instead such a stance shows another darker motive that pro-lifers are often accused of. Pro-lifers who make exception for abortion are saying it is permissable because it is not the fault of the woman who became impregnated. Thus these people deny abortion to women who were not raped because they are making a judgement about their lifestyle and are seeking to punish the woman for her behavior. The life of the unborn is not their concern for if it was they would see aborting a child conceived through rape is just as egregious as any other circumstance because it is the taking of an innocent life.
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This is a strong statement IHG .... As a Pro-Lifer I wouldnt say that I support Abortion in the case of rape .. but I would support a Womens right to choose it. Considering the circumstances I believe there is a difference. There is a differnce between an embryo and a fetus ... I believe once you get into the fetal stage you are entering hands off territory...
Personally .. I do not accept abortion .. but morally I could accept its existance in the first 2 to 3 months of a pregnancy ... providing there are extenuating circumstances for having to have the procedure performed.

Lets rimind ourselves of the first 8 weeks of a pregnancy..:

Week 1-4 After conception, the embryo will begin to "search" for a place to attach to the wall of the uterus (endometrium). When it comes into contact with the endometrium and implants itself there, the connections between the mother and the embryo will begin to form, including the umbilical cord. The embryo's growth centers around an axis, which will become the spine and spinal cord.

Week 5-6 Chemicals produced by the embryo stop the woman's menstrual cycle. The brain begins to develop, showing brain wave activity at about the 6th week. The heart will begin to beat around the same time. Stubs begin to be visible where arms and legs will grow later. All of the main organs begin to grow. The head represents about one half of the embryo's axial length, and more than half of the embryo's mass.

Week 7-8 The embryo's blood type becomes apparent. Embryo is capable of motion, and the eyes begin to form. Most organs have developed or have begun developing. At the end of the 8th week, the embryonic stage is over, and the fetal stage begins.
 
Darla said:
Because I came in and a bunch of white men (actually, I'm not certain you're all white, hyperbole on my part?) were hashing out what would and would not constitute acceptable compromises on abortion.

And it was very funny.

I especially liked Immie's classic, and rather mythical "Mommy doesn't want the baby". It's always "Mommy" who doesn't want the baby in the anti-choicer's mind. And they try and invoke, and quite possibly actually belive, the image of "Daddy" hanging onto the cold, muderous, frigid "Mommy's" leg as she marches off to the abortion clinic, while snicking, and he is begging her "Pleae, please don't abort my baby. you won't have to do anything, I'll pay for every thing and take care of it, please don't do it".

And that, for women who live out in the real world? Even funnier.

Regardless, if you can't see the patronization inherent in six men hashing out abortion rights, that's because you're on the inside. From where I'm sitting, it's funny stuff.
Click to expand...

From where I'm sitting, it's authoritarian stuff.
 
IHateGovernment said:
You white dudes hash this out, and when you get something out of the committee, let us gals know what the deal is.

Why do you say this?
Click to expand...
I would assume it is because men make most of the rules.
But why is that ? I think women control a lot if not most of the money cause they work the men to death ;)
They also complain about men but are the ones that raise us.
????
 
klaatu said:
From where Im sitting its personal experience .... :cool:
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Which is frequently an excuse for authoritarian and patriarchal excess.

Generalizing too broadly from one's personal experience is always a mistake. We all do it to some extent, of course. One can't avoid it. A tight rein is essential, however.
 
When you are discussing a pregnancy ... you arent discussing one individuals right... in many cases there are two or more people involved... most importantly the innocents right to life .....
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Which is frequently an excuse for authoritarian and patriarchal excess.

Generalizing too broadly from one's personal experience is always a mistake. We all do it to some extent, of course. One can't avoid it. A tight rein is essential, however.
Click to expand...

bullshit
 
klaatu said:
When you are discussing a pregnancy ... you arent discussing one individuals right... in many cases there are two or more people involved... most importantly the innocents right to life .....
Click to expand...

Yep, but in our legal system the femal holds the trump cards in that game.
 
Klaatu if you haven't yet take a look at the debate between watermark and myself. It covers some of the concens you mentoned.
 
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