Contradictions of Islam

AnyOldIron

AnyOldIron

Atheist Missionary
Like the rest of the crazy lunacy that is religion, Islam is full of contradictions.

Those in Islam that state it is Allah's will to spread the faith by force often quote "fight and slay the pagans, wherever you find them and cease them, beleaguer them and lie in wait for them" (9:5)

But earlier in the qur'an, it states "there is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clear from the wrong way'. (2:256)


When you read the qur'an, it becomes obvious that the 'message' from Allah to Mohamed changes as he becomes more powerful. When his tribes were surrounded by dominant forces, his message was peaceful resistance, when he became dominant over those forces, he took a more offensive attitude.

This contradiction and apparent alteration of the message relative to Mohamed's circumstances demonstrates what weak foundations the 'revealed message' has.
 
The reality of Christianity has pretty much folowed the same path.
I think it is a human nature thing about power corrupting.
 
No Jesus did not, but then Christianity did not exist as a religion while jesus was alive.....
While he was alive Jesus was a cult leader.
 
uscitizen said:
No Jesus did not, but then Christianity did not exist as a religion while jesus was alive.....
While he was alive Jesus was a cult leader.
Click to expand...


I beg to differ. Jesus was not a cult leader, but an enlightened man like the Buddha. He was a spiritual teacher who understood the meaning of life. His message of peace, love, understanding and forgiveness has been grossly perverted by the religions that have used his persona to become powerful.
 
Techincally all religions started as cults, somewhere with the numbers of members and or time they become a religion. The only difference between a cult and a religion is societies acceptance of a cult to make it a religion.

And I do agree with you on your take of Jesus, a wise man who taught a peaceful way of life in a violent time.
 
uscitizen said:
Techincally all religions started as cults, somewhere with the numbers of members and or time they become a religion. The only difference between a cult and a religion is societies acceptance of a cult to make it a religion.

And I do agree with you on your take of Jesus, a wise man who taught a peaceful way of life in a violent time.
Click to expand...


Even if this is the case, Jesus was a spiritual guide, not a cult leader. His message was not one of a strictly defined religious nature, it was more of a natural understanding of reality (what is), and virtue within that reality.

I suppose you could loosely call Jesus and his 12 buddies a "cult", but the connotations of that word are inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus. He was a simple man who never used manipulation, mind control or force to spread his message. He never looked for power. He simply understood the inner stillness and peace that most are looking for. Religion has hijacked his wisdom and changed his message into that of intolerance, and the threat of eternal torture.
 
What is the difference between a spiritual leader and cult leader ?
I don't know Jesus spoke of his father in heaven and the way to heaven is thru me, etc....sounds like a religious /cult leader to me.
 
Don't forget we get Jesus' message from people who lived many years after his death, people who didn't know him.

Who knows whether his message changed.

There are contradictions in his teachings. At times he appears to utilise moral relativism (do unto others) at others moral absolutism.

What both texts reveal are very human people, with messages that are definitely human in origin.
 
What is the difference between a spiritual leader and cult leader ?

A cult is the name extant religions use to describe fledgling religions in an attempt to malign them and thus protect their monopoly.
 
AnyOldIron said:
What is the difference between a spiritual leader and cult leader ?

A cult is the name extant religions use to describe fledgling religions in an attempt to malign them and thus protect their monopoly.
Click to expand...
Yes! I guess according to some you and I comprise a religion since we agree on this.
 
Yes! I guess according to some you and I comprise a religion since we agree on this.

LOL! The AnyUSians.....
 
uscitizen said:
Yes! I guess according to some you and I comprise a religion since we agree on this.
Click to expand...
Well, if you chose to meet at a specific time and place in order to teach each other and to spread the "message"... then sought consistently converts to your cause then yes, it may be considered a new religion...

Just as some could be said to treat even political parties religiously...
 
Damocles said:
Well, if you chose to meet at a specific time and place in order to teach each other and to spread the "message"... then sought consistently converts to your cause then yes, it may be considered a new religion...

Just as some could be said to treat even political parties religiously...
Click to expand...

so the local PTA is a religion ? They meet regularly and believe that children should get a good education, And they teach each other on new issues and teaching techniques, and they have hit me up to join them....

I guess all unions are religions too....

also I guess this board is a religious site :)
 
uscitizen said:
so the local PTA is a religion ? They meet regularly and believe that children should get a good education, And they teach each other on new issues and teaching techniques, and they have hit me up to join them....

I guess all unions are religions too....

also I guess this board is a religious site :)
Click to expand...
Depends. Nobody attempts to convert you to PTA... Although it would be possible that somebody could treat it as a religion.

I've never once been proselytized to about becoming a PTA member, but I have about atheism and how any other belief is somehow "daft" and equal to believing in garden faeries...
 
Damocles said:
Depends. Nobody attempts to convert you to PTA... Although it would be possible that somebody could treat it as a religion.

I've never once been proselytized to about becoming a PTA member, but I have about atheism and how any other belief is somehow "daft" and equal to believing in garden faeries...
Click to expand...

so if I try to get you to buy a chevy instead of a ford ?
Give it up Damo, you are not technically correct on this issue.
 
uscitizen said:
so if I try to get you to buy a chevy instead of a ford ?
Give it up Damo, you are not technically correct on this issue.
Click to expand...
If you believed that every person who didn't buy the Chevy was 'daft' created groups to convert every Ford person to Chevy, met regularly to listen to long sermons on how best to convince those Ford idiots of their stupidity, then yes. I would say that it had become a religion to you....

You are talking "technically" I am giving an opinion and an explanation of that opinion. So, "technically" pretending my opinion is worthless because you don't want to listen or see it from a different perspective is simple floccinaucinihilipilification.
 
uscitizen said:
I was taking Websters definition of religion Damo, not my opinion as you are.
Click to expand...
I am talking about how I would treat such a zealot. A person who centers their lives around such things, I treat as if it were their religion. And IMO it becomes a religious thing for them.

So, let's look at the word religion or religious and see if it fits...


I look in websters and find that definition 6 is this:

something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

Someone who devotedly follows and considers their Atheism, Chevy Driving, etc. is a matter of such importance it becomes central to them could be said to be in this category. IMO, of course.

It also works well if you simply treat it that way. The Chevy guy trying to convert the Ford guy... if you treat it as a religion and simply don't argue or bring up the subject if you believe differently you can live easier with them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top