decentralization and the energy crisis

That depends on the value of the labor content in the product versus the shipping costs. In some cases, the ratio has changed sufficiently that it now makes sense to "in source." An object such as a kid's blow molded (low value, large items) swing set comes to mind.
 
Solitary said:
On some products I would agree. But this is due to the aim to create a more customized or individually designed product. There is no way to do that on a large scale.

But that does not effect the green movement.
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So ON SOME products im right. Just stfu next time.


And it does affect fuel usage. To the degree that the green movement is about fuel, it is affected.
 
Solitary said:
On some products I would agree. But this is due to the aim to create a more customized or individually designed product. There is no way to do that on a large scale.

But that does not effect the green movement.
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True, it does not directly effect the green movement. In a small factory, there is often an advantage in speed. I am not talking production rate. What I mean is the ability to get changed into the next product faster than the big guys and get the run completed. So even though my production rate may be slower, I can give better delivery time. I can recall specific occasions at companies I used to work for that support this.
 
AssHatZombie said:
So ON SOME products im right. Just stfu next time.


And it does affect fuel usage. To the degree that the green movement is about fuel, it is affected.
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But you aren't talking about the gree movement, remember?

And the fuels costs may or may not be saved. As I said, the raw materials still have to be shipped in. And since they have to be shipped to more locations scattered all over, the fuel savings remain to be seen.

Its quite possible that the fuels costs could actually increase.
 
Trog, as far as a flexible manufacturing system that can make quick adjustments, a more decntralized system would be better. I agree with you.
 
AssHatZombie said:
And lets not forget the savings in trasportation costs of manufacturing locally.
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I have not forgotten. It has been the entire basis for your argument, and you have repeated it over and over.

But if you have manufacturing plants scatter all over 10 states, the company who supplies the raw materials will have to ship those materials to 10 different states. And the manufacturer will still have to ship to 5 states for each plant.

In a centralized system, the entire bulk material load could be shipped by rail at a huge savings, and which would probably counter the additional fuel used to ship materials out.

A train is 3 times more fuel efficient than a truck. So if the bulk materials were shipped in by rail, you would save a great deal.

Also, since each of the plants would be running fleets of smaller vehicles, the fuel efficiency per pound of freight would not be as good as even the 18 wheeler's. So shipping the product out would not save as much.



So your fuel savings could easily be in favor of the centralized manufacturer.

Especially when you consider the sometimes substantial difference in fuels in different geographic areas.
 
Solitary said:
I have not forgotten. It has been the entire basis for your argument, and you have repeated it over and over.

But if you have manufacturing plants scatter all over 10 states, the company who supplies the raw materials will have to ship those materials to 10 different states. And the manufacturer will still have to ship to 5 states for each plant.

In a centralized system, the entire bulk material load could be shipped by rail at a huge savings, and which would probably counter the additional fuel used to ship materials out.

A train is 3 times more fuel efficient than a truck. So if the bulk materials were shipped in by rail, you would save a great deal.

Also, since each of the plants would be running fleets of smaller vehicles, the fuel efficiency per pound of freight would not be as good as even the 18 wheeler's. So shipping the product out would not save as much.



So your fuel savings could easily be in favor of the centralized manufacturer.

Especially when you consider the sometimes substantial difference in fuels in different geographic areas.
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Well more of the material production will be decentralized as well.
for example instead of having one plant in say MI that makes plastic beads for injection molding there might be 6 scattered around the country.
This should also promote more competition for those mega corps that are slow to decentralilze.

Decentralization will take time but will happen to a very noticable degree.

I have already noticed decentralization of retail sales. The big shopping center cities are losing more sales than the retail outlets in the more rural areas.
People are shopping closer to home.
manufacturing will follow to some degree.
 
Solitary said:
By manufacturing in larger quantities, you almost always cut costs.

Many areas have such high property values and high tax bases that manufacturing plants are unable to produce anythiung with making it cost far more.

Shipping costs could be slashed if items were shipped by rail instead of by truck.




The idea that dozens of smaller manufacturing plants would provide products as cheaply as a single centralized one makes no sense. Its cheaper to build one big plant than to build a dozen smaller ones.

And the infrastructure that is used for one plant would have to be multiplied for the dozen smaller ones. The mgmt needed for a larger plant is not significantly more than for smaller plants, so having more smaller plants means far more mgmt cost.

I hardly think "Not necessarily" destroyed my premise. It simply showed that you haven't a clue about the topic.
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local maine farmers, have been making out like bandits since the food cost rises due to the cost of shipping the veggies from California....read an article recently that New York restaurants have started to buy their fresh organic veggies from maine farmers and can get them delivered fresh cut, the same day as their order in many cases, and cheaper NOW than the mass producers of it, in california... and without any mexican illegals to pick it!*

of course when winter comes, mainers are dead meat, can't grow a thing and we are slaves to california.... :(
 
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Care4all said:
local maine farmers, have been making out like bandits since the food cost rises due to the cost of shipping the veggies from California....read an article recently that New York restaurants have started to buy their fresh organic veggies from maine farmers and can get them delivered fresh cut, the same day as their order in many cases, and cheaper NOW than the mass producers of it, in california... and without any mexican illegals to pick it!*

of course when winter comes, mainers are dead meat, can't grow a thing and we are slaves to california.... :(
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Freezing, preserving, Canning, etc. Mankind existed for thousands of years without fresh veggies from thousands of miles away.

It usually takes me till Feburary to get desperate enough to eat a store bought "cardboard" tomato anyway.
 
btw Care, farmers markets and such are going great down here this year as well. Also some chain grocery stores are buying local produce as well. At the IGA in town I bought a couple of nice local watermelons for $1.79 each, not a pound, each! :clink:

The import ones at Kroger were selling for about $6 each.

Nice sweetcorn sells for about $5/dz at roadside stands.
 
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