Democrats: "FAILURE IS THE ONLY OPTION!"

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Dixie - In Memoriam

New member
I've been observing the posts of late, watching the ebb and flow of emotion as pinheads coped with the shock of their win, along with a sense of lost purpose and need to re-group to come up with a plan, since they hadn't formulated one. It was weird to see pinheads try to keep trash talking Bush and realizing that didn't matter now, the spotlight was now on them for a strategy and solution, and they couldn't define one from the platitudes of Kerry, Kennedy and Murtha.

They scurried away for a while, to their little liberal meccas, and deciphered Mien Kampf, or reread Lenin. Finally, they have returned with the profoundly brilliant and well-though out strategy of how we leave Iraq with dignity and honor! It is through understanding..."Failure" is the only option!

When Iraq is discussed, it is always discussed in light of it being a failure, an established set-in-stone failure, and there is simply nothing we can do to change this fact of reality. Since it has been rubber stamped and sealed for eternity as a failure, it opens the doors to so many options for Iraq strategy, like impeaching Bush. In the end, the secret surprise liberal strategy for Iraq, was to proclaim it a failure and liken it to Vietnam, and refuse to even discuss the matter further.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think America voted to "lose" Iraq. I don't think they voted Iraq a failure, either. I think people want to see Iraq resolved, and in a way that is best for us and Iraq, if possible. Failure, is not what is best for America in Iraq, and it's not best for the nation of Iraq. Failure only benefits two distinct groups of people, the radical fundamentalist nuts we are at war with, and the Left-Wing Pinheads.
 
only the badly defeated, yet still koolaid soaked right defines leaving Iraq with as few a number of additional US casualties and letting Iraqis solve Iraq's problems as "failure".
 
No military victory is possible, Dickster. Even Henry Kissinger says it.

You and Bush have fucked us. Royally.
 
Your president has been reduced to irrelevancy, Dixie. He's powerless to affect any changes in Iraq. Sending 20 or 30 thousand more troops won't fundamentally change anything.

As for diplomacy: nobody on the planet respects him. They won't listen to him. Even if he wanted to try his hand at diplomacy.

Your war will end, when one side is victorious in the civil war. Bottom line. Or, when Iran, Syria, and regional neighbors of Iraq can construct a diplomatic solution.

Bush is relegated to the sidelines, blathering on endlessly about "staying the course". Nobody of any consequence is listening to him anymore. Deal with it.
 
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badly defeated, yet still koolaid soaked right

Hmmm... you must have watched a different election than I did. And I guess those koolaid drinkers musta been busy making a batch on election day, and just forgot to show up, huh?

leaving Iraq with as few a number of additional US casualties and letting Iraqis solve Iraq's problems

No one I know of, wants more additional US casualties. No one has ever been opposed to letting Iraqis solve Iraq's problems, and when we eliminate the insurgents from outside influence, this can happen. We can't allow Iran and Syria to ally with Sadr and overthrow the democracy, so we can't really just leave the Iraqi people to sort it all out. We are allies with Iraq, and we are obligated to honor our word to them. If we fail to do this, how will it bode for our relationship with other allied countries in the region?
 
are you ever gonna explain where you got the hairbrained idea that Iranian persian shiites would provide support to Iraqi arab sunnis fighting their shiite brethren?
 
Dixie said:
badly defeated, yet still koolaid soaked right

Hmmm... you must have watched a different election than I did. And I guess those koolaid drinkers musta been busy making a batch on election day, and just forgot to show up, huh?
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no...I watched the one where we swept to majorities in both chambers when YOU had been so certain that YOUR side wouldn't even lose a single seat, that you bet me $100 on that..... which you reneged on, as everyone knew you would.
 
I don't think they voted Iraq a failure, either. I think people want to see Iraq resolved, and in a way that is best for us and Iraq, if possible. Failure, is not what is best for America in Iraq, and it's not best for the nation of Iraq. Failure only benefits two distinct groups of people, the radical fundamentalist nuts we are at war with, and the Left-Wing Pinheads.
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Clearly failure is not what's best for America. Which is why the left was so insistant about not invading Iraq. But the sad reality is that Iraq is a mess and a gigantic failure on just about every level possible:

- We've destabilized a country
- Our actions have become the rallying point for Al Qaeda
- Al Qaeda's presence has increased in Iraq because of the invasion
- The Sunni's and Shiites are engaging in a cival war (or whatever the fuck monkey boy calls it)
- We've empowered Iran
- Oh and lastly: there was no WMD program so the entire basis for the invasion is mute.

You can sit there and give us you're self righteous retarded BS about "fighting for democracy" or "fighting for freedom" or any other Hannity talking point, but the fact is we've messed up royally and our presence IS NOT helping the situation. Its getting worse. Its time to pull out. We shouldn't have been there in the first place.
 
Cypress said:
No military victory is possible, Dickster. Even Henry Kissinger says it.

You and Bush have fucked us. Royally.
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Um, a military victory is very possible... just bomb the shit out of them.

I believe you mean, political, moral, or social victory.
 
Dixie said:
badly defeated, yet still koolaid soaked right

Hmmm... you must have watched a different election than I did. And I guess those koolaid drinkers musta been busy making a batch on election day, and just forgot to show up, huh?

leaving Iraq with as few a number of additional US casualties and letting Iraqis solve Iraq's problems

No one I know of, wants more additional US casualties. No one has ever been opposed to letting Iraqis solve Iraq's problems, and when we eliminate the insurgents from outside influence, this can happen. We can't allow Iran and Syria to ally with Sadr and overthrow the democracy, so we can't really just leave the Iraqi people to sort it all out. We are allies with Iraq, and we are obligated to honor our word to them. If we fail to do this, how will it bode for our relationship with other allied countries in the region?
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"We can't allow Iran and Syria to ally with Sadr and overthrow the democracy, so we can't really just leave the Iraqi people to sort it all out. We are allies with Iraq, and we are obligated to honor our word to them."


So, you lied when 18 freakin months ago you said there were only a few dead enders left oppossing us in Iraq, and that they were withering away.

If there were only a few dead enders left, the 300,000 man strong Iraqi army should be able to handle them. But, of course you were just lying for the last three years.


May 23, 2005, Fullpolitics.com:

-Mainemain: Your side said that the insurgency was just a handful of foreigners and that it would wither away when Saddam was captured

-Dixie: And they have been.... slowly but surely they are dwindling.

-Maineman: Your side said that the insurgency was just a handful of disgrunteled Ba'athists and that it would wither away when Saddam was captured

-Dixie: And they are.... it takes time. Are you so ignorant of warfare as to think that we are engaged in some heavy military conflict with an enemy we can't defeat, like Vietnam? I thought you were more intelligent Maine.

-Maineman: Your side said that the insurgency was just a handful of foreigners and that it would wither away when elections were held

-Dixie: AND THEY DID MAINE! Most of the fucking world came to their senses when they saw 8 million Iraqi people defy the threat of extreme danger to affirm democracy in Iraq! What the fuck are you still doing opposed to it?
 
Grind said:
Um, a military victory is very possible... just bomb the shit out of them.

I believe you mean, political, moral, or social victory.
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Not when the name of the war is "Operation Iraqi Freedom". Killing all the people would technically be a loss. Unless by Iraqi Freedom you mean: Freeing them of life.
 
Grind said:
Um, a military victory is very possible... just bomb the shit out of them.

I believe you mean, political, moral, or social victory.
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That would be a tactical short term military victory, and a strategic catasrphic blunder in the long run.

The minute we bomb iraq into a parking lot, is the minute that enraged militant elements embedded in the Pakistani government, hand some of their nukes over to al qaeda to conduct nuclear attacks in the US. And every arab state on the planet throws our military out of their country under a hail of Kalishnakov bullets.
 
"I've been observing the posts of late, watching the ebb and flow of emotion as pinheads coped with the shock of their win, along with a sense of lost purpose and need to re-group to come up with a plan, since they hadn't formulated one"

That's an odd take on what has happened. The win was certainly no shock for me, though I am pleased by the final margin (39 million Democrat votes, compared to 28 million Republican...ouch!) I also feel absolutely no sense of lost purpose, and see virtually none of that in the national Dem leadership. They are ready to move forward with the initiatives that they talked about for the ENTIRE CAMPAIGN: congressional reform, funding stem cell research, raising the minimum wage, helping families pay for college tuition with targeted tax relief, incenting alternative energy development, and pursuing a new course in Iraq.

As for the last one, most agree that any sort of victory is ill-defined and pretty much untenable. Stability is the goal at this point; if you & Bush have your way, we'll be fighting a guerilla war for the next decade. Partitioning needs to be on the table; timetables need to be on the table. Giving the Iraqi government an ultimatum has to be on the table. Saddam is disarmed (was when we got there), and the regime has been changed. Isn't that the "victory" that you were looking for when you sold this thing as our most effective strategy in the war against terror?
 
LadyT said:
Not when the name of the war is "Operation Iraqi Freedom". Killing all the people would technically be a loss. Unless by Iraqi Freedom you mean: Freeing them of life.
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Well that's the whole point, our current war really isn't a war.... it isn't a military operation anymore.... if it was about blowing things up and destorying everyone we would win hands down... we WOULD EASILY win militarily.

This is a political operation, not a military one.
 
Shock of victory? For MONTHS, it was stated that Democrats would likely take back The House, and The Senate was anyone's guess. I guess Dixie only watches Fox News, and even then, only the parts he likes to see.
 
The Bush Admin killed any hope of "victory" in Iraq when they WILLFULLY shut out The State Department, and the scant few EXPERTS on Iraq that we have.

They INSISTED that Rumsfeld run the entire operation, and HIS idea for WINNING THE PEACE was that Iraqis would immediately join hands and sing:

"Ding-Dong, Hussein is dead, the wicked Saddam is dead".
 
The simple FACT is that there are no satisfying answers to deal with Iraq. We need to deal with the best REALISTIC answer, rather than the prettiest IDEOLOGICAL "answer".
 
But the sad reality is that Iraq is a mess and a gigantic failure on just about every level possible:

We liberated 25 million people.
Closed countless rape rooms and torture chambers.
Stopped the filling of countless mass graves.
Stopped the feeding of dissidents into wood chippers.
Stopped the videotaping of rape and torture for sick pleasure of the Husseins.
Gave women a chance to express a political voice for the first time in history.
Iraqis turned out 12 million people to vote under threat of death.
Iraqis had 70% participation in democratic elections for a parliament.
Iraqis have seated a parliament and adopted a constitution.
Iraqis have trained a 300,000-man security force while combating insurgents.

Oh yeah... and we eliminated a major pain in the ass of the US and our allies in that region. We no longer have to worry about what Saddam is doing or what he is planning... whether he will gas thousands of his own people again, or invade his neighbors... whether he will develop a nuke like Armagedongoninsane, or allow alQaeda free reign in the Kurdish region. None of these things are of any concern anymore, and it's something I don't think a lot of pinheads like to factor in, when 'looking objectively' at Iraq.
 
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