Does America love War?

Cypress

Well-known member
Empirically, its all true though. We as a nation, have had one of the most war like foreign policies in the last 50 years. And, quite often, for not exactly altruistic reasons (although trial balloon altruistic reasons are cynically floated; the iraq war for instance).

We spend more on the military, and have had more wars than any other nation in the last half century. And, while there are those who wrap themselves in the flag that would view these opinions as “anti american”, it pays to keep in mind the words of General Dwight Eishenhower, and two time medal of honor winner, General Smedley Butler: creating and maintaining a vast and large military industrial complex, creates its own permanent constituency for more military spending, more wars, more empire building.

America Loves Peace? Odd, Since We're Always at War

http://alternet.org/audits/77827/

suppose you wanted to measure comparative national warlike tendencies by simply counting wars.

Since World War II, the United States has messed around, in ways big and small, in Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Guatemala, El Salvador, Lebanon, Grenada, Iraq, Panama, Colombia, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Haiti, Afghanistan again, and Iraq again. No country in the world can begin to match this record in the last half-century. And I'm not even listing here the covert operations (almost everywhere), including the ones that toppled democratically elected governments (Iran, Guatemala, Chile, etc.), the long-term occupations of Latin American countries by the U.S. military, the gunboat diplomacy of the American Navy around the world, the aiding and abetting of other killers (Saddam invading Iran, for example, apartheid South Africa or the Israeli occupation of Palestine), the militarization of the oceans and of space, or the myriad other ways in which the United States leads the planet in aggressive tendencies. (For a whole century's worth of overseas fun -- not even counting the big stuff -- Stephen Kinzer's Overthrow is highly recommended reading.)

Who has China been invading lately? Russia? Fidel? Those perfidious (and perfumed) French? Heck, even Saddam couldn't touch this record for aggression, especially once you account for the fact that the U.S. government assisted his foreign soiree into Iran (complete with the chemical weapons, of course) and likely green-lighted the one into Kuwait as well. And let's even grant that one or two of those American adventures had some measure of altruism associated with them, as perhaps the Balkan or Somalian affairs might have (I'd like to know the full story before making that judgment). Isn't the sheer volume of them -- especially relative to the number of wars other countries have fought -- a bit problematic for maintaining the pretense of America's pacific intent? My conservative (in both senses of the word) list above goes to nearly 20. Isn't that a bit much for a peace-loving country?

But scratch that measure if you must (perhaps it cuts too close to the bone). Maybe we can detect America's dislike for war in another metric, say military spending. Oops. Turns out that's going to be a bit problematic, too. I guess it won't be a huge surprise to anybody that the United States spends more on "defense" than any other country in the world. But here's the truly scary part: The United States not only outspends every other country in the world on military goodies, it outspends ALL other countries of the world. Combined. That's right. Take all 190-plus countries out there and add together their defense budgets and you still won't equal America's alone. What's more, that doesn't even include the $100 billion or so that we're dropping each year in Iraq and Afghanistan, nor the additional costs in veterans' (so-called) care, munitions replacement and economic losses we have been hemorrhaging for those wars, which will continue, for decades to come, estimated to run up toward 2 trillion bucks total. (Oh, and did I mention that one-sixth of our population doesn't have healthcare coverage? Never mind. I'm sure those are completely unrelated facts.) Anyhow, does that sound like a peace-loving country to you? And think about this for a second: How absolutely disastrous does your diplomacy have to get so that you need to be able to fight off every other country of the world, all at once?!

Continued
 
There is a passage out of Carmac McCathy's Blood Meridian where the nastiest of all the characters talks about war and he says that before man was born war waited for him. I believe that is true. Our warlike nature is genetic. It comes from wanting to either conquer for our own gain or protect that which we have already gained. It will NEVER go away.
 
Yeah we must love war. I was hoping we would grow above that....


Well maybe if our leaders wouldn't purposefully ignore energy stores close by, thus forcing us into war, we wouldn't be forced into war. Don't blame the people, we're being manipulated by liars who claim to have our self interest in mind, but only have their own.
 
There is a passage out of Carmac McCathy's Blood Meridian where the nastiest of all the characters talks about war and he says that before man was born war waited for him. I believe that is true. Our warlike nature is genetic. It comes from wanting to either conquer for our own gain or protect that which we have already gained. It will NEVER go away.

QFT

We will never overcome or warlike tendancies.
We will just become more efficient at it. Perhaps to the point we wipe our species out one day.
 
I disagree. I believe it is not genetic, but that we are indoctrinated with it. It is our culture, it is our schools, it is our history, our school books, our literature, our films. Pledge allegiance to the flag. Warriors are glorified, as is war. It’s how we are raised. And it’s not by accident.
 
There is a passage out of Carmac McCathy's Blood Meridian where the nastiest of all the characters talks about war and he says that before man was born war waited for him. I believe that is true. Our warlike nature is genetic. It comes from wanting to either conquer for our own gain or protect that which we have already gained. It will NEVER go away.

Has there ever been a time when there has been true peace on Earth? I'm not knocking peace as a worthy goal but fighting or war does seem to be an ingrained human characteristic.
 
There is a passage out of Carmac McCathy's Blood Meridian where the nastiest of all the characters talks about war and he says that before man was born war waited for him. I believe that is true. Our warlike nature is genetic. It comes from wanting to either conquer for our own gain or protect that which we have already gained. It will NEVER go away.


Yes, its genetic.

But, you can't overlook the $$$ aspect either. Once you have an established, permanent military industrial complex, you have created a permanent and powerful constituency for more wars, more military spending, and the use of that military to further corporate and (allegedly) "national" interests.
 
Has there ever been a time when there has been true peace on Earth? I'm not knocking peace as a worthy goal but fighting or war does seem to be an ingrained human characteristic.

Well, that's a nice ready-made guilt-free excuse for bombing babies, but...I don't buy it. We as a species have advanced in all other ways, why not this one?

because we are not permitted to.
 
I disagree. I believe it is not genetic, but that we are indoctrinated with it. It is our culture, it is our schools, it is our history, our school books, our literature, our films. Pledge allegiance to the flag. Warriors are glorified, as is war. It’s how we are raised. And it’s not by accident.
Darla, small bands of chimps go to war with other groups of chimps. We and chimps are genetically 98% the same. Chimps are not indoctrinated. Early man was not indoctrinated. Man has warred with man for 13,000 years.
 
Well, that's a nice ready-made guilt-free excuse for bombing babies, but...I don't buy it. We as a species have advanced in all other ways, why not this one?

because we are not permitted to.

I am far from a pyschologist or whatever it is called. I'm not trying to make excuses I'm trying to understand. Hasn't there been fighting since man has been on the planet? And based on all the fighting in the 20th Century it doesn't look like we've evolved all that much. So if it is not man's quest for power and control then what is it?
 
Darla, small bands of chimps go to war with other groups of chimps. We and chimps are genetically 98% the same. Chimps are not indoctrinated. Early man was not indoctrinated. Man has warred with man for 13,000 years.

But we've advanced in other ways. Not in this one. That's not a coincidence.
 
I disagree. I believe it is not genetic, but that we are indoctrinated with it. It is our culture, it is our schools, it is our history, our school books, our literature, our films. Pledge allegiance to the flag. Warriors are glorified, as is war. It’s how we are raised. And it’s not by accident.


That is true. Good call. Costa Rica and Switzerland aren't invading anyone. And haven't for centuries.
 
Great point.

You've read "1984".

Yep, it was scandalous to me at the time as a hs freshman bible thumping type too :)
He was right just not on the date.
Controlled and monitored by the tube too if I recall correctly. been a long time ago.
 
I am far from a pyschologist or whatever it is called. I'm not trying to make excuses I'm trying to understand. Hasn't there been fighting since man has been on the planet? And based on all the fighting in the 20th Century it doesn't look like we've evolved all that much. So if it is not man's quest for power and control then what is it?

It's for a few men's quest for power and control. YOU are not benefitting from this quest Cawacko, but you've been convinced that you are. And that's how it continues.
 
And by saying that I think it is genetic does not mean I approve of it. That is the problem most of the time with people hearing this. They think that by positing an explanation, particularly a gentic one, that it some how justifies it or gives it legitimacy. IT does not, and I am not saying that it can't be overcome. I just seek to try to give my 2 pennies worth.
 
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