Double Uh-O's

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I think that this is an exellent piece by Salon's Glenn Greenwald, and I can't find anything here I disagree with. I only put the first half here, the second half is worth reading as well. He makes the excellent point in the second part that spitting on liberals and kissing Dick Cheney's ass ain't change. And further, it lost us the past two elections. Also, since when is standing up for the fourth amendment a "leftist" issue??? If that's the case, that only "leftists" are worried about the crumbling of our constitution, it's over people. There aren't enough of us around.

"On January 31 of this year, Keith Olbermann donned his most serious face and most indignant voice tone to rail against George Bush for supporting telecom immunity and revisions to FISA. In a 10-minute "Special Comment," the MSNBC star condemned Bush for wanting to "retroactively immunize corporate criminals," and said that telecom immnity is "an ex post facto law, which would clear the phone giants from responsibility for their systematic, aggressive and blatant collaboration with [Bush's] illegal and unjustified spying on Americans under this flimsy guise of looking for any terrorists who are stupid enough to make a collect call or send a mass email."

Olbermann added that telecom amnesty was a "shameless, breathless, literally textbook example of Fascism -- the merged efforts of government and corporations that answer to no government." Noting the numerous telecom lobbyists connected to the Bush administration, Olbermann said:
This is no longer just a farce in which protecting telecoms is dressed up as protecting us from terrorists conference cells. Now it begins to look like the bureaucrats of the Third Reich, trying to protect the Krupp family, the industrial giants, re-writing the laws of Germany for their benefit.
Olbermann closed by scoffing at the idea that telecom amnesty or revisions to FISA were necessary to help National Security:

There is not a choice of protecting the telecoms from prosecution or protecting the people from terrorism, Sir. This is a choice of protecting the telecoms from prosecution or pretending to protect the people from terrorists. Sorry, Mr. Bush, the eavesdropping provisions of FISA have obviously had no impact on counter-terrorism, and there is no current or perceived terrorist threat the thwarting of which could hinge on an email or phone call that is going through Room 641 of AT&T in San Francisco.

Strong and righteous words indeed. But that was five whole months ago, when George Bush was urging enactment of a law with retroactive immunity and a lessening of FISA protections. Now that Barack Obama supports a law that does the same thing -- and now that Obama justifies that support by claiming that this bill is necessary to keep us Safe from the Terrorists -- everything has changed.

Last night, Olbermann invited Newsweek's Jonathan Alter onto his show to discuss Obama's support for the FISA and telecom amnesty bill (video of the segment is here). There wasn't a syllable uttered about "immunizing corporate criminals" or "textbook examples of Fascism" or the Third Reich. There wasn't a word of rational criticism of the bill either. Instead, the two media stars jointly hailed Obama's bravery and strength -- as evidenced by his "standing up to the left" in order to support this important centrist FISA compromise:

OLBERMANN: Asked by "Rolling Stone" publisher, Jann Wenner, about how Democrats have cowered in the wake of past Republican attacks, Senator Obama responding, quote, "Yeah, I don't do cowering." That's evident today in at least three issues . . .
Senator Obama also refusing to cower even to the left on the subject of warrantless wiretapping. He's planning to vote for the FISA compromise legislation, putting him at odds with members of his own party . . . But first, it's time to bring in our own Jonathan Alter, also, of course, senior editor of "Newsweek" magazine.
Good evening, Jon.

JONATHAN ALTER, NEWSWEEK: Hi, Keith.

OLBERMANN: "Yeah, I don't do cowering." This is not just the man, but the campaign?

ALTER: Yes. This is part of the message that is consistent across the last couple weeks and it comes down to one word -- strength. The United States is not going to elect a president that perceives to be as weak. You look weak if you're flip-flopping. You look weak if you're not taking actions that seem to be securing the United States against terrorists. And you look weak if you don't fight back against your political adversaries.

OLBERMANN: But this cuts, I mean, this terminology cuts in more than one direction here. Not cowering to Republicans is one thing in the Democratic, recent Democratic history, it's a thing that I think anybody who has a "D" near their name cheers, but not cowering to the left, not going along with the conventional, the new conventional thinking on the FISA bill, that's something altogether different, isn't it?

ALTER: Yes. I don't really think it is. It was only a matter of time before the left was disappointed in Barack Obama, at least in a limited way. No politician is ever going to do everything that somebody likes.

And I think some folks in the netroots in particular on this FISA bill who are, you know, pulling their hair out over this, they have to realize, he's always been a politician, he'll always be a politician, and politics is the art of the possible. And he's a legislator. He knows that you can't always get everything that you want in a bill, even if he personally believes that the immunity for Telcoms is a bad idea. The larger idea of the bill was important.

And I actually think one of the big points, Keith, that hasn't been made about this bill is that currently, as of last August, since last August, we've been operating in an unconstitutional environment, clear violation of the Fourth Amendment.

So, there was tremendous urgency to get the FISA court back into the game. And does this bill do it imperfectly? Yes. But it does do it and it restores the Constitution, which is a point that's not getting made very much.
Leave aside the fact that Jonathan Alter, desperate to defend Obama, doesn't have the slightest idea of what he's talking about. How can a bill which increases the President's authority to eavesdrop with no warrants over the current FISA law possibly be described as a restoration of the Fourth Amendment? That would be like describing a new law banning anti-war speech as a restoration of the First Amendment.

As Jim Dempsey and Marty Lederman both note, not even the nation's most foremost FISA experts really know the full extent to which this bill allows new warrantless spying. Obviously, Jonathan Alter has no idea what he's saying, but nonetheless decrees that this bill -- now that Obama supports it -- restores the Fourth Amendment. Those are the Orwellian lengths to which people like Olbermann and Alter are apparently willing to go in order to offer their blind devotion to Barack Obama.

Moreover, Alter's own explanation is self-contradictory. In the course of praising Obama's FISA stance, he says that a politician looks "weak if you're flip-flopping" and "you look weak if you don't fight back against your political adversaries." But that's exactly what Obama is doing here -- completely reversing himself on telecom amnesty and warrantless eavesdropping, all in order to give the right-wing of the GOP everything it wants on national security issues in order to avoid a fight. By Alter's own reasoning, what Obama's doing is "weak" in the extreme, yet Alter bizarrely praises Obama for showing "strength."

All of the decades-old, conventional Beltway mythologies are trotted out here to praise Obama. Democrats move to the "center" by embracing hard-core right-wing policies. Democrats will look "weak" unless they turn themselves into Republican clones on national security. A President becomes "strong" when he tramples on the Constitution and the rule of law in the name of keeping us safe. Democrats must embrace the Right and repudiate the base of their own party, and they must support Dick Cheney's policies while "standing up to the ACLU."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/26/olbermann/index.html
 
oh no you didn't! No one is allowed to post anything negative about Uber-man!
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In all seriousness though, I'm still a little shell shocked on Obama's support for this crap.
 
oh no you didn't! No one is allowed to post anything negative about Uber-man!
__________________________________________________________________

In all seriousness though, I'm still a little shell shocked on Obama's support for this crap.

That’s right I did! That’s why I picked that title. See, double O’s? Obama & Olbermann!

Greenwald is totally right. We don’t need a FOX News for Obama. Why did Olbermann flip-flop like that? When Bush did it, he actually said it was fascism, when Obama does it he’s “showing that he won’t cower to the left”?

Nah, it’s fascist shit both times, and it’s unconstitutional.

But, if you manage to bag Olbermann, I’ll lay off of him for about a week, out of respect.

Of course I just read now the second part you put in. I am too. And I was willing to cut him slack on some things, because I understand electoral reality, and also his specific circumstances. Not on this though.
 
That’s right I did! That’s why I picked that title. See, double O’s? Obama & Olbermann!

Greenwald is totally right. We don’t need a FOX News for Obama. Why did Olbermann flip-flop like that? When Bush did it, he actually said it was fascism, when Obama does it he’s “showing that he won’t cower to the left”?

Nah, it’s fascist shit both times, and it’s unconstitutional.

But, if you manage to bag Olbermann, I’ll lay off of him for about a week, out of respect.

Of course I just read now the second part you put in. I am too. And I was willing to cut him slack on some things, because I understand electoral reality, and also his specific circumstances. Not on this though.

Good to know you're a team player.

But, unfortunately I have nothing to counter Greenwald.

Olbermann's still hot though. Although he just lost a hot point.
 
Good to know you're a team player.

But, unfortunately I have nothing to counter Greenwald.

Olbermann's still hot though. Although he just lost a hot point.

Well, none of them are perfect Tiana, and you can always improve him. I like to think of men as collective works in progress, that we as women, improve as much as we can, and then pass along to the next woman, who can then instill some improvements of her own.
 
Well, none of them are perfect Tiana, and you can always improve him. I like to think of men as collective works in progress, that we as women, improve as much as we can, and then pass along to the next woman, who can then instill some improvements of her own.

I don't like that theory. The idea that some beyotch is reaping the benefits of my training, doesn't sit well with me.
 
That’s right I did! That’s why I picked that title. See, double O’s? Obama & Olbermann!

Greenwald is totally right. We don’t need a FOX News for Obama. Why did Olbermann flip-flop like that? When Bush did it, he actually said it was fascism, when Obama does it he’s “showing that he won’t cower to the left”?

Nah, it’s fascist shit both times, and it’s unconstitutional.

But, if you manage to bag Olbermann, I’ll lay off of him for about a week, out of respect.

Of course I just read now the second part you put in. I am too. And I was willing to cut him slack on some things, because I understand electoral reality, and also his specific circumstances. Not on this though.


Because as we have been saying for some time. Olbermann is a complete and total HACK. He does what he is told to do. He reads what he is told to read. He is nothing more than a well trained poodle. All the hype and BS that he is a great journalist is just that... hype and BS.
 
Well, none of them are perfect Tiana, and you can always improve him. I like to think of men as collective works in progress, that we as women, improve as much as we can, and then pass along to the next woman, who can then instill some improvements of her own.
Blatant sexism. How ugly.
 
No reason to diss Obama, though is there?

Why not? And are you a republican troll? All I ever see you say is outlandish things like “once Obama is president he’ll take away all the guns”, and other equally ridiculous claims.
 
Because he never said what you claimed, and he will make sure theres gun control. Check it out, before you go accusing
 
Why did Olbermann flip-flop like that? When Bush did it, he actually said it was fascism, when Obama does it he’s “showing that he won’t cower to the left”?

Because Olbermann is hypocritical, partisan hack. He hates, and I can not stress that enough, he HATES Bush and all things conservative and Republican. There is not an unbiased bone in his body. If a Democrat had issued the orders to invade Iraq, he would have led the charge and carried the flag. He will do nothing, absolutely nothing, to cast a bad light on Obama. Whatever Obama says or does is right and good, if you disagree, well, you're wrong.

You may not like FoxNews, they may have a conservative/Republican POV, but with the exception of the moronic twit Sean Hannity, the majors of that network don't change their opinions just to suit their favorite candidate.
 
Because Olbermann is hypocritical, partisan hack. He hates, and I can not stress that enough, he HATES Bush and all things conservative and Republican. There is not an unbiased bone in his body. If a Democrat had issued the orders to invade Iraq, he would have led the charge and carried the flag. He will do nothing, absolutely nothing, to cast a bad light on Obama. Whatever Obama says or does is right and good, if you disagree, well, you're wrong.

You may not like FoxNews, they may have a conservative/Republican POV, but with the exception of the moronic twit Sean Hannity, the majors of that network don't change their opinions just to suit their favorite candidate.

Bullshit. FOX news is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Republican party. Funny how you can so easily see the problems of others, but think your backyard is clean. It ain’t.

By the way – did O’Reilly come out with that admission that the Iraq war was a mistake, that he promised to give, if no WMD’s were found yet?
 
Bullshit. FOX news is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Republican party. Funny how you can so easily see the problems of others, but think your backyard is clean. It ain’t.

By the way – did O’Reilly come out with that admission that the Iraq war was a mistake, that he promised to give, if no WMD’s were found yet?

First of all, FoxNews is hardly my backyard, I am more likely to be found watching CNN of their sister station, HNN. Second, I freely recognize the leanings of FN, it's one of the reasons I stopped watching it every night. Sean Hannity is such a political hack he makes it nearly impossible to keep my dinner down. How he remains on the air is a mystery. What I recall of O'Reilly, and what I've seen recently bears this out, is that while he may have conservative leanings, he easily calls out the Republicans just as he does the Democrats. Though his style leaves much to be desired.

Perhaps it is because I feel no real party affiliation, but I think that there is no such thing as a truly unbiased news or news opinion broadcast. Once you reach that conclusion, it makes watching the stuff much easier. But there is no denying that the two biggest political hacks gracing our airwaves are Keith Olbermann and Sean Hannity.

Third, to your question of O'Reilly's admission of Iraq being a mistake, I can honestly say that I do not watch him often enough to have witnessed such an admission, the last time I watched him was when he interviewed Hillary. However, a quick Google search will turn up this:

"...a top FOX News apologist for Bush, Bill O'Reilly, described the Iraq war as a 'mess' and said he wishes 'we had never gone in there.'"

It's from some blog and the video is no longer available, but there you go.

In the end, though, does it matter what O'Reilly did? I thought this thread was about Olbermann...
 
Olberman... what a fucking hypocrite.

But really no surprise. I've said for months that Olberman is the left's O'Reilly: A blustering, intolerant loudmouth.
 
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