efficient government

Don Quixote

Don Quixote

cancer survivor
Contributor
an efficient government would be very dangerous and should be avoided at all costs

what we need are more obstructions to new laws not fewer

what we need is either a rep congress with a dem pres or a dem congress with a rep pres

unfortunately, i think that we will get a dem pres and congress

while the value of the dollar is recovering somewhat and the price of oil is falling back to reasonable levels, unemployment is still rising and while worker income has risen slightly, it has not kept up with previous quarters

oh well, a population usually gets the government that they deserve or will tolerate

there is still solid opposition to the war in iraq

there is still a faltering economy (regardless of how 'well' it appears to be doing)

inflation is bad

and there are more and more elderly forced to work beyond retirement age

but, i am all right jack...
 
Seems you have a different definition of government efficiency than the common definition. Most people are talking about fiscal efficiency when talking about efficient government. That type of efficiency is desirable. The tax payer should get the most bang for the buck possible.

As to your definition, I agree that one party controlling both WH and congress is not a good thing. This is especially true since both parties have come to represent the extreme instead of the mainstream of their political philosophies. Extremism is not good, no matter which side it represents.
 
an efficient government would be very dangerous and should be avoided at all costs

(define a efficient government)

what we need are more obstructions to new laws not fewer

(Some laws and judges today are organized, in a liberial fashion, to mean anything they want, when they want--Obama will complete the process)

what we need is either a rep congress with a dem pres or a dem congress with a rep pres

(good to have checks and balances--the Dem party does not agree)

unfortunately, i think that we will get a dem pres and congress

(I think Palin will bring McCain to the front)

while the value of the dollar is recovering somewhat and the price of oil is falling back to reasonable levels, unemployment is still rising and while worker income has risen slightly, it has not kept up with previous quarters

(our dollar is rising a bit, but that is not beaause we are getting stronger--other nations are also getting weaker. Notice, they are all industrialized nations that are taking advantage of slave labor in other nations---just like we are---selling out our own people--us and other dollar falling nations.---worker wages are not rising here in Michigan)

oh well, a population usually gets the government that they deserve or will tolerate

(or the one the universities and media want--until Palin comes around with a cold galss of water to throw on us---washing away the tainted kool-aid)

there is still solid opposition to the war in iraq

(there is always opposition to war---war sucks--but is needed if we want to keep our heads and stay free)

there is still a faltering economy (regardless of how 'well' it appears to be doing)

(world trade organization baby--share holders numbers hold for now (what Rush and Hannity only report-and believe is the only economy)---but the people got screwed. We are rotting from the bottom up.)

inflation is bad
(go green---yea baby--push it hard--let the people suffer, then we can make them dependants and control them to bring people together and mesh better with the rest of the world--for a better world---at our expense!)

and there are more and more elderly forced to work beyond retirement age

(It is part of the socialist plan--(you are suppose to be just a worker!!!!--right?)--and strong evidence that Social Security is a failure--like all government run programs. Medicare--31% corruption--and nobody goes to jail is another. Palin has a lot of work to do in the corruption department.)

but, i am all right jack...[/QUOTE]

(I would have lost my home or at least had to take in a roomate at the age of 44 with manufactruing degrees, with high skills that are hard to find today.--But, I got lucky, started my own part time business for about $100.00, and it grew and is growing. I did not let liberialism knock me down--telling me I have no chance like Obama and his wife do, but I got lucky with the right skills, at the right time (so get the skills for when the time comes). 3 years ago (at 41), with formal education in the manufacturing trade and good skills on the shop floor, with over 20 years of good exp, including management and applications engineering of machine tools-- I was always worried about paying my utility bills and making my car get to work. That is not the case today---because this is America, and I had the guts to get my dream.

Next years sales predictioins (which would be almost all profit, if I don't buy more stuff for the business) should be almost about $200,000---out of my home and garage's. If that is profit--the government will take prbably more than half of that right now. Obama wants to take more, telling you it is pay back time. Remember that--if you ever try to get your dream. Socialists will take it---so why bother trying to get it in a socialists enviornment? Why bother to dream? Why bother to be a self supporting man? Why bother voting?

Thats right--this is america--and nobody can take care of me better than me. I am sorry if you let your dreams get beat out of you. Try some Palin/American spirit. :) )
 
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Good Luck said:
Seems you have a different definition of government efficiency than the common definition. Most people are talking about fiscal efficiency when talking about efficient government. That type of efficiency is desirable. The tax payer should get the most bang for the buck possible.
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Yes--that is why I asked him to define it.
 
How did this myth get started that the Democrats are the extreme of their party? They're hardly extreme liberals.
 
ib1yysguy said:
How did this myth get started that the Democrats are the extreme of their party? They're hardly extreme liberals.
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You only watch one TV news channel--I can tell. Please diverse yourself, and make up your own mind. Fox does not even cut it. Every consertative talk show host claims this to be true (and Mitt Romney even mentioned forces trying to make us a European sytyle government in the USA--which is extreem liberialism/ socialism)--and after they explain it--I remember.

I can also tell your a young individual. Ask your grand parents (because your parents may have drank the kool-aid also) what direction they see this nation forced into. I bet they can tell you a few things. it is not the first time a government tried to control the whole population--and it won't be the last. It is a ongoing cycle--and wars become of it. I love talking with the older generations of real America. They have become quite wise over the years. They understnad the ruthlesness of human nature IMO.

There may be some corolation here--The "Progressive" party was also the name of the Communist party in either Russia or Germany. Heck--may be both--since it is here now. they just have to be carefull how they impliment it--because some of us remember and feel freedom right now still.

I see Plain as the great equalizer. I hope I am correct about her. I think I am.
 
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ib1yysguy said:
How did this myth get started that the Democrats are the extreme of their party? They're hardly extreme liberals.
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Also--don't get me wrong. There are some good Dems. Listen to a speach or two of JFK, who was a Dem liberial. He sounds really consertative today (and that may have got him shot). there is a total shift of republican and demacratic parties today. It is all shifting left as the media tells us what the american people want. It really is common knowledge. Here is a good show for you to watch, for a little balance. Now I can't stand to watch CNN, but I do force myself to do it once in a while, so I can know my enemy (so to speak). I don't expect you to not have that same queezy feeling in your stomach, that I have in mine when I watch CNN/ NBC/ MSNBC etc etc--but try to watch Glenn Beck on head line news at 7pm every week night. He is a bit off base sometimes just like every body else IMO, but your grand parents will probably agree with him, if they were born and raised in this country--or may be even immegrated here. They came from a socialist government if they did, most likely. They know what they are seeing now if they like individual freedom and liberity.

Again--the media tearing Palin apart for dust is a indicator of how agitated they are that their social movements might be halted for a decade or two. Note, they will never giver her much praise about fighting corruption (and nobodys record is as impressive as hers is)--not nearly as mucy as trying to show the public that she is not qualified because she is a grand mother--after her daughter gets married. I would hate to be that boyfriend--that boy has no choice I am sure--because of the republican party. But--if he does not marry her--I might throw out my proposal. kidding
 
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ib1yysguy said:
How did this myth get started that the Democrats are the extreme of their party? They're hardly extreme liberals.
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I think you see it that way, because you don't see the slow shift called "creeping incrimentalism" that has taken place over the last 50 or so years (ever since the new deal IMO). Do you relaize that a national health care system (which every government fails their people with) is the biggest social program intorduced since the new deal? (we did not ask for either of them--it is pushed on us in hard times, and a thorn in our side during good times)

The term you use now "Hardly extreem liberials" need to be looked at outside of itself. Todays Dems in office, and many republicans are Marksist, working with world forces to take away what ewe earned--because they say it is not fair.

Obama quote I am sure you have heard--but it just did not register with you--yet.

"we can't keep driving our SUV's, eating anything we want, keep our thermostat at 72 deg--and have the rest of the world say--OK!".

I am here to tell you Obama---YES WE CAN!!

Now, if you don't think telling you what kind of car to drive, what kind of food to eat, and how warm you keep your home (or how many homes you own) in the winter is not Marksist--your gonna have to talk to your grand parents.

Remember--there is a lot of history about the whole world. It did not start spinning the day we all were born. It is basically the same story over and over. People have freedom in their hearts (nature of all living animals), other people want to control them (nature of many humans)--then, when we figure out we are being controlled, we fight about it and see where it ends up (Georgia and Russia--Russia is becoming a control freak again--time mag--your mildly liberial mag--made putin man of the year a few months ago--cover shot--is putin the kind of "mild liberial" time mag likes?--or a communist?). That was thousands of years of history--in one sentence.

This is a bit for some---but when the DNR (Department of natural Resources) puts a transmiter on a wild animals neck---that animal is no longer free.

Watch for a new "national ID card" (and it may be part of your new drivers licenses). It will have a transmitter in it, transmitting your personal information right through the walls of your own home. Is that freedom--or is that one step away from---comunisum. Many people don't know the difference--some in this country actually volanteer to have a chip placed under their skin. I am not going to accept the nationa ID card, even if it is my drivers license. If I get in trouble, I will move to a state that does not intergrate our drivers licenses with the national id card--and I bet that won't be Mass, NY, or CA--where many liberials are.
 
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Since about 30% of america works for the government in one way or another efficient government would cause problems.

America has existed on inefficient government for a loooong time.
 
uscitizen said:
Since about 30% of america works for the government in one way or another efficient government would cause problems.

America has existed on inefficient government for a loooong time.
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Very true.

Which brings light to the fact that DC votes 90+% democrat. Those who work for government know which party represents the best job security in big government bureaucracies.
 
Good Luck said:
Very true.

Which brings light to the fact that DC votes 90+% democrat. Those who work for government know which party represents the best job security in big government bureaucracies.
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How much poverty do they have comapred to the national average--I don't know.
 
Good Luck said:
Very true.

Which brings light to the fact that DC votes 90+% democrat. Those who work for government know which party represents the best job security in big government bureaucracies.
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Not just DC. the military, road construction crews, manufacturers of road construction equipment, School systems, universities, Income tax prep companies. Companies that build government buildings. Law enforcement, fire protection, the court system, the public utility workers, Many hospitals and their workers. Park workers, countless companies that provide goods and services to the government.
And that is just scratching the surface.
 
Not just DC. the military (no privatization as combatents), road construction crews(corruption--lack of competition), manufacturers of road construction equipment (same), School systems (same), universities (same), Income tax prep companies (fully private, wide spread, and competitive?). Companies that build government buildings (to the highest bidder--usually a friend). Law enforcement(copuld actually be privatized, and fired by a community if they don't do a good job), fire protection (same), the court system (ug--where do ya start with the corruption), the public utility workers (lack of private competition again), Many hospitals and their workers (tons of corruption--where do ya start?). Park workers, countless companies that provide goods and services to the government.
And that is just scratching the surface.

Most paid 20% more more than a simular private sector job. Much better benifits--right out of your highly taxed ass.

About two years ago, the number of state employees in Michigan (non productive, and non value adding, I might add) became higher than the number of employees in the manufacturing sector. Now--there are not enough jobs ffor the private sector (over a 7% unemployment rate in Michigan), and those state workers could not move into the private sector if they wanted to--and they don't want to.

Good write.
 
theMAJORITY said:
Not just DC. the military (no privatization as combatents), road construction crews(corruption--lack of competition), manufacturers of road construction equipment (same), School systems (same), universities (same), Income tax prep companies (fully private, wide spread, and competitive?). Companies that build government buildings (to the highest bidder--usually a friend). Law enforcement(copuld actually be privatized, and fired by a community if they don't do a good job), fire protection (same), the court system (ug--where do ya start with the corruption), the public utility workers (lack of private competition again), Many hospitals and their workers (tons of corruption--where do ya start?). Park workers, countless companies that provide goods and services to the government.
And that is just scratching the surface.

Most paid 20% more more than a simular private sector job. Much better benifits--right out of your highly taxed ass.

About two years ago, the number of state employees in Michigan (non productive, and non value adding, I might add) became higher than the number of employees in the manufacturing sector. Now--there are not enough jobs ffor the private sector (over a 7% unemployment rate in Michigan), and those state workers could not move into the private sector if they wanted to--and they don't want to.

Good write.
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I have a couple of problems with your post.

First of all, when you call the state employees non-productive and non-value adding, you are simply lying.

The state's law enforcement keeps the state safe for ALL the workers, those who produce actual products, those who provide services, and those who live off our taxes. I would call maintaining a safe environment quite a value.

The state inspectors insure that the various producers of goods do not cause harm to our people. I would certainly call that valuable.

The teachers work to educate our children are certainly adding value to our society. If you think they aren't, then try and do it for the taxes you pay and see how that works out.

The fish & game employees enforce the laws that govern our wild lands. They certainly provide value by making sure that wild game, wild habitat and wilderness are available for all our citizens.




As for the lack of competition in public utilities, there have been offers to allow private companies to join in with public utilities in certain cities. And the total lack of response has been astounding.

A city in North Carolina, a city in Tennessee, a county in Georgia, and two cities in Florida have offered companies the chance to be the video provider and telephone providers in new fiber optic systems being built by the cities.

In all those cases they were turned down cold. The city was going to build the system, and wanted partners in the operations.

Now the cities (and a county) have, or will have, state of the art fiber optic systems that blow cable and DSL systems away.
 
uscitizen said:
Not just DC. the military, road construction crews, manufacturers of road construction equipment, School systems, universities, Income tax prep companies. Companies that build government buildings. Law enforcement, fire protection, the court system, the public utility workers, Many hospitals and their workers. Park workers, countless companies that provide goods and services to the government.
And that is just scratching the surface.
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Surely you do not intend to compare military and law enforcement to a DC bureaucracy whose function is to test the flow rates of ketchup? (Yes, it really does exist - NOT an exaggeration!!)

I would agree that things like highway maintenance, education, etc. can undoubtedly be operated more efficiently. But they do have a significant and measurable benefit to society. We could do it cheaper, no doubt. But cheaper or inefficient, those jobs MUST be done.

OTOH, you take any capital city, (but DC is by far the largest, being the HQ of the federal government), and you could probably eliminate 70+% of the bureaucracies and offices for this and that, and not even notice their absence. (except the positive effect it would have on the budget.) Of course, most state capitals have other industries - so they would not be hit TOO hard. If we were to eliminate the majority of do-nothing bureaucracies in DC, it would become a ghost town.

You can also take a look at political history of DC and easily mine out statistics (without needing to spin them) showing democratic programs, by far, create the most useless and wasteful bureaucracies. It is why DC votes such an incredibly high percentage for democrats - they are protecting their jobs.
 
Good Luck said:
Surely you do not intend to compare military and law enforcement to a DC bureaucracy whose function is to test the flow rates of ketchup? (Yes, it really does exist - NOT an exaggeration!!)

I would agree that things like highway maintenance, education, etc. can undoubtedly be operated more efficiently. But they do have a significant and measurable benefit to society. We could do it cheaper, no doubt. But cheaper or inefficient, those jobs MUST be done.

OTOH, you take any capital city, (but DC is by far the largest, being the HQ of the federal government), and you could probably eliminate 70+% of the bureaucracies and offices for this and that, and not even notice their absence. (except the positive effect it would have on the budget.) Of course, most state capitals have other industries - so they would not be hit TOO hard. If we were to eliminate the majority of do-nothing bureaucracies in DC, it would become a ghost town.

You can also take a look at political history of DC and easily mine out statistics (without needing to spin them) showing democratic programs, by far, create the most useless and wasteful bureaucracies. It is why DC votes such an incredibly high percentage for democrats - they are protecting their jobs.
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Actually it's because it's majority African-American and completely urban. It votes like other majority African-American urban cities.
 
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