Energy Options

I hope your right, I have seen zero experts predict such.
Solar is not new, and you need to have $40,000 ish on your roof to approach getting off the grid. Input prices are skyrocketing on making the chips.
Notice how Oncelor never uses facts just platitudes.

take eslr for example they use string ribbon technology that used lesss then 50% of the silicon needed by other traditional thin films such as ENER or first solar. They are predicting there cost per watt down to .99 within a couple years.

Then in the future you have nano solar that doesn't even use silicon. prices are going down fast.. and when the big companies like AMAT are jumping into solar you know that the supply to market will go up.
 
You can make vehicles that can use multiple sources of fuel which can create competition at the pump.

It isn't that hard to understand.


Well, "open source" has a generally distinct and understood meaning in the area of product development that typically includes allowing free and unfettered access to technologies to foster a collaborative development effort. So yes, when you use it to talk about vehicles and use the term "open source" as a verb (as in "open source the vehicles") is it a bit difficult to understand.

I think I understand what you're saying. Basically, you want vehicles that can operate on multiple sources of fuel?
 
take eslr for example they use string ribbon technology that used lesss then 50% of the silicon needed by other traditional thin films such as ENER or first solar. They are predicting there cost per watt down to .99 within a couple years.

Then in the future you have nano solar that doesn't even use silicon. prices are going down fast.. and when the big companies like AMAT are jumping into solar you know that the supply to market will go up.
Which tells me that we can use what we have here, make that bridge, and look to that bright future, all at the same time and make our own lives better. We have an amazing future and present if we want it.
 
Well, "open source" has a generally distinct and understood meaning in the area of product development that typically includes allowing free and unfettered access to technologies to foster a collaborative development effort. So yes, when you use it to talk about vehicles and use the term "open source" as a verb (as in "open source the vehicles") is it a bit difficult to understand.

I think I understand what you're saying. Basically, you want vehicles that can operate on multiple sources of fuel?
Definitely. And they aren't that difficult to make. Factories would need to be retooled, but it certainly would benefit our economy to have people making the vehicles as well as getting the fuel for them from the different sources.

Our economy is fueled by energy, not oil. It is only "fueled" by oil because we refuse to engage the alternatives that actually are viable alternatives. Often we lock up, unnecessarily, the alternatives in producing electricity.

Most people don't even know that only 40% of the oil we use goes into our cars. That often we use it to generate electricity, and most not in the East don't know how much is used to heat homes in the winter.

Ignoring an interim source of electricity (nuclear) that would allow us to use that natural gas/propane towards the vehicles (it would increase available supply and reduce the cost to the consumer too) is a HUGE mistake. We could be off oil in a decade with viable and abundant alternatives that are available to us today.

Using estimates that don't include other sources like propane, ethanol, etc. it is estimated that we have enough natural gas to see us through 120 years. But heck, we need to keep sucking up that foreign oil.... it's the only thing we should do until the technology is available to replace it... wait....
 
still pretty expensive.. but will be about a quarter of that cost by 2012
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-EVERGREEN-SOL...52|39:1|66:2|65:12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318

I've believe and have been burned by that solar dance before.
Cost have come down, but not exponetially like someone compared to computer chips. It's not even close to electricity without subsidies and won't be any time soon. But on the bright side Supower equipted houses in Cali are selling twice as fast as non solar.
 
how much of these alt sources of energy are going to legitimately replace oil within the next ten years?

I think we do have a chance to replace foreign oil (which is about half of what we consume) with other energy sources within the next ten years. But ONLY if we make it a national effort. A nose to the grind stone, no matter what oil prices do.... we do it.

We have many options...

For electricity production....

1) Solar... with CURRENT governement subsidies it has a payback on commercial properties of about one year. For residential it is still about 15 years... so we need to work on that. Bottom line, the technology is there and continuing to improve. It will be economically viable without subsidies within ten years. We just have to invest in the future.

2) Wind... yes, it will take billions to get wind up and running. The main obstacle will be connecting the wind farms with the population centers. It will be costly, but can be done.... and Corning is the number one producer... so jobs will remain in the US.

3) Nuclear... I know this isn't a popular option, but Europe has shown it can be done and this is an option that we can have up and running easily within ten years.....

4) Coal facilities... while not ever truly clean... they could be... I'll explain later down the line....

What do we currently use oil for.....

barrel of oil yields these refined products (percent of barrel):

47% gasoline for use in automobiles

23% heating oil and diesel fuel

18% other products, which includes petrochemical feedstock—products derived from petroleum principally for the manufacturing of chemicals, synthetic rubber and plastics

10% jet fuel

4% propane

3% asphalt

From the above... what can we replace with alternatives?

1) Automobile use... convert to nat gas/electric vehicles, which not only burn cleaner, but we also have an abundance of untapped nat gas that will supply us for 120 years (not counting the nat gas we would not be using in electric production)... while I do not think this can be done entirely within ten years, I think we could realisticly replace 40-50% of cars within the ten years.

BUT we have to build the infrastructure for nat gas refueling and get a concerted effort from the automakers to build them. Honda already has their nat gas civic.... so we know the technology is already available. We just need the stations.

2) Diesel/jet fuel... ethanol production CAN not be done with grain. We need the food. But it CAN be done with cellulosic ethanol. The most viable at this time is Algae based biofuel. The algae can be grown anywhere. It uses far less water than crops or any other source of biofuel production. The algae can also be used in combo with coal plants to pull pollutants out of the air. Further, the remaining product after the oil is extracted can be used as a high carb animal feedsource.

Learn more here.... http://www.solixbiofuels.com/

While this won't eliminate oil entirely, it can be developed to cut down oil consumption.

3) Heating oil.... the main culprits of use are up in the Northeast.... More electrical generation and a conversion towards a clean electric heating systems can be done. The holdup here is the electrical production. For which we need to do the above.

Obviously the above was a long read, but bottom line we can get off of foreign oil in the next decade.... IF we start investing now.

The above should also be complemented by producing our own oil at full capacity. Why? When comparing the oil producers in the Mideast, Russia, Africa, South and Central America to the US... who has the more stringent watchdogs for the environment? If you said the US, you are correct. So why should we want other countries to drill our oil (not to mention transport it) when we can do it in a more environmentally friendly way closer to home? This would also keep jobs here in the US, keep the money here in the US and would help us reach that energy independence within ten years.

To be clear... it will NOT be easy.... but it can be done.
 
Here's the plan, we will get off oil for a shorttime, while they are subsidizing other ridiculous corn schemes that are no actual solution. Then they will limit the oil distribution apparatus. Then pull the subsidies on irrational replacements. Thus they have managed to destroy the oil distrubution framework, so elites can keep oil for themselves.
 
I've believe and have been burned by that solar dance before.
Cost have come down, but not exponetially like someone compared to computer chips. It's not even close to electricity without subsidies and won't be any time soon. But on the bright side Supower equipted houses in Cali are selling twice as fast as non solar.

Evergreen is saying by 2012 a commercial solar installation will have a 24month payback.. Its hard to swallow and im skeptical. but if true thats phenomenal.
 
Evergreen is saying by 2012 a commercial solar installation will have a 24month payback.. Its hard to swallow and im skeptical. but if true thats phenomenal.

Ummm... it is already under that out here. Commercial property paybacks average about a year....

Now Evergreen may mean 24 months without government subsidies, because that is what I have heard from the solar producers out here. But with the government rebates it is currently about a year.
 
Ummm... it is already under that out here. Commercial property paybacks average about a year....

Now Evergreen may mean 24 months without government subsidies, because that is what I have heard from the solar producers out here. But with the government rebates it is currently about a year.

i was talking without.
 
BTW im sitting on 5000 shares of eslr waiting for Q109 first time profits. stock is a wretched dog right now but i think i can 2-4 bang in in 09. Hate waiting tho.
 
BTW im sitting on 5000 shares of eslr waiting for Q109 first time profits. stock is a wretched dog right now but i think i can 2-4 bang in in 09. Hate waiting tho.

Most of the solars have been pounded lately. I am also holding onto some ESLR, along with TSL and JASO.

Taking it on the chin a bit in the short run, but I agree... long run they are going to be good paybacks.
 
I took profits on ENER and still have spwr at a slight loss.
Hope to get back in ener before thier second ever qtrly profit is released
 
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