Experts Rip CDC for Redacting All 148 Pages of Information on Myocarditis After COVID

[Scott]

I have the OP on ignore, and even I knew the source was bogus

I found it ironic that you have me on ignore and yet you've participated in so many of my threads anyway. Anyway, for anyone reading this, one might wish to wonder, how does Althea know that the source is "bogus"?

Attempted force of negative proof fallacy. He doesn't have to prove anything is bogus.

I never said he had to prove the source was bogus. I simply asked anyone reading my post, such as yourself, how Althea would know that the source is such.

He can simply not accept the source given as valid.

Sure. But it's one thing to not accept a source as valid. It's another thing entirely to provide proof that this is the case.

It is up to the one giving that source reference to justify it.

It is up to all of us to at least provide evidence for the claims we make. The source I cited in the opening post provides plenty of evidence for its claims. Althea provided none for his own.

 

[Scott]

The risk of myocarditis is MUCH greater in that same group if they contract COVID.

Show me solid evidence that the Covid virus even exists and you could start a case. Or any other virus for that matter. I've discussed the lack of evidence that viruses exist in a thread here at length:

Settling the Biological Virus Debate | justplainpolitics.com

You lost that argument long ago.

Anyone can make a claim. Proving claims, or at least providing strong evidence for them, is another matter entirely.

 

[Into the Night]

I never said he had to prove the source was bogus.

Yes you did. Don't try to deny your own posts.

I simply asked anyone reading my post, such as yourself, how Althea would know that the source is such.

Not true. Don't try to deny your own posts.

Sure. But it's one thing to not accept a source as valid. It's another thing entirely to provide proof that this is the case.

You echo what I stated, but you don't practice it.

It is up to all of us to at least provide evidence for the claims we make.

No. All that is required is a reasoned argument.

The source I cited in the opening post provides plenty of evidence for its claims.

So?

Just to take your side for a moment, I happen to believe your source as valid. Not everyone does, however.

Althea provided none for his own.

He doesn't need to. Attempted negative proof fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Anyone can make a claim. Proving claims, or at least providing strong evidence for them, is another matter entirely.

Repetition fallacy (chanting).

 

[Scott]

What kills me is that when it comes to Covid, we're dealing with the broken clock syndrome. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

So all the anti-gov't/conspiracy fringe groups out there get it right with regards to the increasing cases of cardio/respiratory failures being reported in relatively healthy and/or young people a year or two after the vaccine mandates. This way, the real science can be ignored by the MSM, left & right pundits, etc. Sad.

Based on your post above as well as other things you've said in the past in regards to the Covid vaccines, my take is that you think that the Covid vaccines are more harmful than good, but that most if not all other vaccines do more good than harm. Would that be your take?

 

[Scott]

I never said he had to prove the source was bogus.

Yes you did.

Always with the unsubstantiated claims. It can get tiresome.

It is up to all of us to at least provide evidence for the claims we make.

No. All that is required is a reasoned argument.

I'm not sure one can make reasoned arguments without providing evidence for one's point of view, but if you'd like to try to provide evidence to the contrary, by all means do so.

The source I cited in the opening post provides plenty of evidence for its claims.

So?

As far as I'm concerned, the name of the game in any reasoned argument is evidence. Without it, I don't see how the argument can be reasonable. My article passes the test.

Just to take your side for a moment, I happen to believe your source as valid. Not everyone does, however.

Agreed. The difference between my linked source in the opening post that I provided and the detractors of same is that one side (my linked source) provides evidence for their claims, while the other side doesn't.

The source I cited in the opening post provides plenty of evidence for its claims. Althea provided none for his own.

He doesn't need to.

Agreed, he doesn't. But then, anyone can make claims, no matter how outlandish. What's harder is providing evidence for them.

 

[Into the Night]

Based on your post above as well as other things you've said in the past in regards to the Covid vaccines, my take is that you think that the Covid vaccines are more harmful than good, but that most if not all other vaccines do more good than harm. Would that be your take?

There is no Covid vaccine in the United States. An mRNA treatment is a treatment, not a vaccine.

Mandated vaccines are always harmful. If you want to get vaccinated (or treated) for anything, that is YOUR choice.
No vaccine ever prevented any disease. They can mitigate what happens if you become infected, but that's all.

The Covid treatment does not do anything useful. It's purpose is to infect you with Covid. That's how mRNA treatments work. To mandate it is tyranny.

The entire Covid Panic was manufactured by Democrats. The disease itself exists, but it did NOT require destroying the economy. An airborn virus does not care of a business is closed or destroyed or not. It does not care if people stand six feet apart. It does not care if people go a particular direction down a shopping aisle. It is on every surface. It is spread by the HVAC system in a building through that building. It is AIRBORN.

Covid19 was the mildest variant of the Covid/SARS series of viruses ever discovered. NO Covid/SARS series virus kills. Covid19 does not kill either.
Like any respiratory virus, it can induce pneumonia, and you should watch for it. Pneumonia can be treated and cured, but ONLY if you catch it early and treat it aggressively. It is an opportunistic bacteriological infection, not a virus.

You are attempting a false dichotomy fallacy coupled with a compositional error fallacy. Not all viruses are the same. Not all medical treatments are the same. Not all vaccines are the same.

Mandates have NO place in any of them.
Destroying businesses has NO place in any of them.

You are also still locked in Paradox V and Paradox M.

Paradox V:
1) I get the 'vaccine' to protect myself from Covid.
2) I demand YOU get the 'vaccine' because mine doesn't work.

Paradox M.
1) I wear a mask to protect myself from Covid.
2) I demand YOU wear a mask because mine doesn't work.

N95 masks do not protect against a virus. They are DUST MASKS. Use them to protect yourself from dusty conditions like installing fiberglass insulation, prep and spray painting, even mowing a lawn on an exceptionally dry day. They won't protect you from Covid or any other virus.

Now if you want to get a polio vaccination to protect yourself from polio and accept the risk such a vaccination has, go right ahead. It won't stop polio, but it will help you if you get infected by it, mitigating it enough to prevent it from causing permanent damage. If you don't want to risk such a vaccination, then you of course risk getting full blown polio and quite possibly losing the use of your legs from it. Be aware that the vaccine can DO THE SAME THING in some people...in other words, give them full blown polio. This actually happened to a guy I used to work with.

Polio, of course, still exists in the world; mostly in countries with poor sanitation (the root infection vector of polio). BTW, a polio vaccination is NOT mandated and never was.

 

[Into the Night]

Always with the unsubstantiated claims. It can get tiresome.

Your own posts are the substance, Sock. Denying your own posts won't work. ANYONE can read them.

I'm not sure one can make reasoned arguments without providing evidence for one's point of view,

Because you deny and discard philosophy, mathematics, logic, and science. You actually believe a Holy Link is a proof of some kind.

but if you'd like to try to provide evidence to the contrary, by all means do so.

Attempted force of negative proof fallacy.

As far as I'm concerned, the name of the game in any reasoned argument is evidence. Without it, I don't see how the argument can be reasonable. My article passes the test.

Because you deny and discard philosophy, logic, mathematics, and science. Holy Links are not a proof. Cut and pasting is not a proof. It is this attitude of yours that makes you susceptible to every kind of wacky notion that crosses the internet.

Agreed. The difference between my linked source in the opening post that I provided and the detractors of same is that one side (my linked source) provides evidence for their claims, while the other side doesn't.

A Holy Link or cut and pasting is not a proof. It is not a Universal Truth. Stop treating them is if they were.
Instead, present your OWN reasoning for your arguments. This is harder. It means you have to think for yourself. You are not used to that because you cut and paste and depend on Holy Links (someone else's argument) that you plagiarize as your own. Presenting your OWN argument, and the reasoning for it, is the essence of philosophy.

Agreed, he doesn't. But then, anyone can make claims, no matter how outlandish. What's harder is providing evidence for them.

It's not about evidence. It's about presenting your OWN reasoning for your arguments. That is the essence of philosophy. It forces you to think for yourself instead of depending on others to do your thinking for you.

That said, this IS a blind political forum. Referencing some article in the papers or some activity in government is fine for starting a conversation. You cannot depend on that, however, to prove anything. The papers print fiction all the time. So do the TV networks (yes...ALL of them, some worse than others). People in government lie all the time. They make up 'data' all the time. Sure, provide a reference to it to start a conversation, but don't depend on any of it to prove anything and don't treat it like it was some kind of Universal Truth.

 

[Scott]

Show me solid evidence that the Covid virus even exists and you could start a case. Or any other virus for that matter. I've discussed the lack of evidence that viruses exist in a thread here at length:

Settling the Biological Virus Debate | justplainpolitics.com

You lost that argument long ago.

Anyone can make a claim. Proving claims, or at least providing strong evidence for them, is another matter entirely.

Repetition fallacy (chanting).

Keep on making unsubstantiated assertions and I will keep on pointing out that that's what you're doing.

 

[Scott]

What kills me is that when it comes to Covid, we're dealing with the broken clock syndrome. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

So all the anti-gov't/conspiracy fringe groups out there get it right with regards to the increasing cases of cardio/respiratory failures being reported in relatively healthy and/or young people a year or two after the vaccine mandates. This way, the real science can be ignored by the MSM, left & right pundits, etc. Sad.

Based on your post above as well as other things you've said in the past in regards to the Covid vaccines, my take is that you think that the Covid vaccines are more harmful than good, but that most if not all other vaccines do more good than harm. Would that be your take?

There is no Covid vaccine in the United States. An mRNA treatment is a treatment, not a vaccine.

Let the record show that I was asking Taichiliberal's take, not yours. Now, he may well agree with you, just thought I'd point this out. As to whether Covid vaccines are mRNA treatments or just regular vaccines, I don't really care so much. I view all injections labelled as vaccines as toxic to the human body and innefectual in preventing anything. There are positions somewhere in between mine and those who view some vaccines as possibly alright. Vaxxed may be to your liking, though it is hard to find online. The following IMBD page has the trailer for it:

https://www.imdb.com/video/vi3312366873/

Mandated vaccines are always harmful. If you want to get vaccinated (or treated) for anything, that is YOUR choice.

I agree that's much better than vaccine mandates. I think ideally all injections labelled as vaccines should be eliminated.

No vaccine ever prevented any disease. They can mitigate what happens if you become infected, but that's all.

Because I don't believe in biological viruses, as well as much of the conventional allopathic doctrines in regards to bacteria, I don't even believe they can mitigate anything. Just harm people.

The Covid treatment does not do anything useful. It's purpose is to infect you with Covid. That's how mRNA treatments work. To mandate it is tyranny.

Again, because I don't believe that Covid is caused by a virus, I don't think that any covid vaccine/mRNA treatment can infect you with it, but I certainly believe these injections can hurt or even kill people. I made a thread about evidence that they've been doing a lot of killing back in September 2023:

COVID Vaccines Causally Linked to Increased Mortality, Resulting in 17 Million Deaths | justplainpolitics.com

The entire Covid Panic was manufactured by Democrats.

Not so fast. Trump was pushing for Covid vaccines too:
Donald Trump Pushes COVID-19 Vaccine, Says He is 'Very Proud' of It | Newsweek

Quoting from the aticle:
**
Former President Donald Trump says that he is "very proud" of the COVID-19 vaccine and would "love" to see more people get vaccinated.

Trump boasted that he had purchased "billions and billions of dollars" worth of vaccine doses in advance while serving as president and gently urged his followers to take the vaccine during a Wednesday interview on Newsmax TV's Greg Kelly Tonight.
**

The disease itself exists,

Sure, the issue is its causes. Did you know that Chinese people were wearing face masks long before Covid? It was due to the excessive amount of air pollution in many of their cities. I've also seen evidence in the past that the introduction of wireless 5G networks, which was rolling out in Wuhan and other places at the time the alleged Covid pandemic began, may have played a role as well.

Now if you want to get a polio vaccination to protect yourself from polio and accept the risk such a vaccination has, go right ahead. It won't stop polio, but it will help you if you get infected by it, mitigating it enough to prevent it from causing permanent damage. If you don't want to risk such a vaccination, then you of course risk getting full blown polio and quite possibly losing the use of your legs from it. Be aware that the vaccine can DO THE SAME THING in some people...in other words, give them full blown polio. This actually happened to a guy I used to work with.

Polio, of course, still exists in the world; mostly in countries with poor sanitation (the root infection vector of polio). BTW, a polio vaccination is NOT mandated and never was.

I've seen evidence that Polio was caused by harmful chemicals, such as DDT, rather than a biological virus. A journalist named Tessa Lena wrote a good article on the evidence for this, I could try to find it later if you like.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Keep on making unsubstantiated assertions and I will keep on pointing out that that's what you're doing.

How's life in Russia these days?

 

[Into the Night]

Keep on making unsubstantiated assertions and I will keep on pointing out that that's what you're doing.

Argument of the Stone fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Let the record show that I was asking Taichiliberal's take, not yours. Now, he may well agree with you, just thought I'd point this out. As to whether Covid vaccines are mRNA treatments or just regular vaccines, I don't really care so much. I view all injections labelled as vaccines as toxic to the human body and innefectual in preventing anything. There are positions somewhere in between mine and those who view some vaccines as possibly alright. Vaxxed may be to your liking, though it is hard to find online. The following IMBD page has the trailer for it:

I agree that's much better than vaccine mandates. I think ideally all injections labelled as vaccines should be eliminated.

Because I don't believe in biological viruses,

Your problem. Viruses do exist. They can be tested for, indicators can be prepared for them, and you can even view them on modern microscopes. Their presence has been known since the 19th century.

as well as much of the conventional allopathic doctrines in regards to bacteria,

Your problem. Bacteria do exist. They can be tested for, indicators can be prepared for them, and you can see them on any good optical microscope.

I don't even believe they can mitigate anything. Just harm people.

Vaccines can mitigate infections by a virus.

Again, because I don't believe that Covid is caused by a virus,

Your problem. Covid19 is one variant of the Covid/SARS series of viruses.

I don't think that any covid vaccine/mRNA treatment can infect you with it,

Your problem. The Covid mRNA treatment is designed to cause your own body to manufacture Covid.

but I certainly believe these injections can hurt or even kill people.

Some. Mostly it just gives you a case of covid19.

I made a thread about evidence that they've been doing a lot of killing back in September 2023:
COVID Vaccines Causally Linked to Increased Mortality, Resulting in 17 Million Deaths | justplainpolitics.com

Manufacturing numbers and using them as 'data' won't work. Argument from randU fallacy.

Not so fast. Trump was pushing for Covid vaccines too:
Donald Trump Pushes COVID-19 Vaccine, Says He is 'Very Proud' of It | Newsweek

Yes he was. He was NOT, however, attempting to shut down businesses or mandate any 'vaccine'. DEMOCRATS did that.

Quoting from the aticle:
**
Former President Donald Trump says that he is "very proud" of the COVID-19 vaccine and would "love" to see more people get vaccinated.

Trump got government red tape out of the way to develop the 'vaccines'. He encouraged people to get vaccinated, but did not mandate it.

Sure, the issue is its causes.

Not an issue. Covid19 is a virus.

Did you know that Chinese people were wearing face masks long before Covid? It was due to the excessive amount of air pollution in many of their cities.

So?

I've also seen evidence in the past that the introduction of wireless 5G networks, which was rolling out in Wuhan and other places at the time the alleged Covid pandemic began, may have played a role as well.

5G is a protocol, dummy. It does not cause a disease.

I've seen evidence that Polio was caused by harmful chemicals, such as DDT,

Polio is caused by a virus. DDT does not cause disease.

A journalist named Tessa Lena wrote a good article on the evidence for this, I could try to find it later if you like.

No. Don't bother. Finding other religious nuts like you that deny what has been observed has no point.

 

[Into the Night]

How's life in Russia these days?

What does Russia have to do with anything he posted???

 

[Scott]

Always with the unsubstantiated claims. It can get tiresome.

Your own posts are the substance, Sock.

Coming out with the base insults now? We've agreed on some things, such as the origins of oil and certain parts of the Covid narrative, but when people start using base insults on me, that's when I tend to take out the thread ban hammer. Since we've known each other for a while, I'll let it go, but consider this a warning. As to your claim that my "own posts are the substance", once again, you are making an unsubstantiated assertion. Anyone could say that someone's posts are the substance of whatever claim they wish. Providing evidence that their claim(s) are true is another matter entirely.

I'm not sure one can make reasoned arguments without providing evidence for one's point of view,

Because you deny and discard philosophy, mathematics, logic, and science. You actually believe a Holy Link is a proof of some kind.

Do you have any evidence for the above assertions?

It is up to all of us to at least provide evidence for the claims we make.

No. All that is required is a reasoned argument.

I'm not sure one can make reasoned arguments without providing evidence for one's point of view, but if you'd like to try to provide evidence to the contrary, by all means do so.

Attempted force of negative proof fallacy.

I decided to do a search on this "attempted force of negative proof fallacy". I only found negative proof fallacy:
https://logfall.wordpress.com/negative-proof-fallacy/

Is that what you meant?

Agreed. The difference between my linked source in the opening post that I provided and the detractors of same is that one side (my linked source) provides evidence for their claims, while the other side doesn't.

A Holy Link or cut and pasting is not a proof.

I'm not sure where you are getting this notion that I believe that a link or a quote is proof of anything. Perhaps you'd like to explain?

Agreed, he doesn't. But then, anyone can make claims, no matter how outlandish. What's harder is providing evidence for them.

It's not about evidence.

Here we disagree. I strongly believe that any good argument requires solid evidence. Without it, I don't see how it could be a good argument.

 

[Scott]

Keep on making unsubstantiated assertions and I will keep on pointing out that that's what you're doing.

Argument of the Stone fallacy.

I did a search for your "argument of the stone fallacy", I came up with "Appeal to the stone" on Wikipedia. From its introduction to the term:

**
Appeal to the stone, also known as argumentum ad lapidem, is a logical fallacy that dismisses an argument as untrue or absurd. The dismissal is made by stating or reiterating that the argument is absurd, without providing further argumentation. This theory is closely tied to proof by assertion due to the lack of evidence behind the statement and its attempt to persuade without providing any evidence.
**

What I find quite ironic is that I find that this is precisely what you are doing. You refuse to provide evidence for many of your claims and expect people to just believe them simply because you assert them. Sorry, but I'm not buying.

 

[Scott]

Your problem. Viruses do exist.

As you know, I made a thread to debate whether or not biological viruses exist, so I responded to the above statement and a few others you made in the above post in said thread here:

Post 1292, Settling the Biological Virus Debate | justplainpolitics.com

 

[Scott]

Because I don't believe in... the conventional allopathic doctrines in regards to bacteria,

Your problem. Bacteria do exist.

I never said they didn't. I seems you thought that just because I don't believe in biological viruses that I don't believe in bacteria. I believe in bacteria. The issue is whether the various bacteria in existence are actually the causes of the various diseases that allopathic medicine claims they are responsible for. A good example is syphilis. Long article on it at Mike Stone's substack if you're interested:

The Syphilis Scam | Mike Stone

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
What kills me is that when it comes to Covid, we're dealing with the broken clock syndrome. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

So all the anti-gov't/conspiracy fringe groups out there get it right with regards to the increasing cases of cardio/respiratory failures being reported in relatively healthy and/or young people a year or two after the vaccine mandates. This way, the real science can be ignored by the MSM, left & right pundits, etc. Sad.

Based on your post above as well as other things you've said in the past in regards to the Covid vaccines, my take is that you think that the Covid vaccines are more harmful than good, but that most if not all other vaccines do more good than harm. Would that be your take?

Here's my stance in a nut shell: The covid vaccines were rushed under emergency status and would NEVER HAVE BEEN VETTED under normal FDA standards. Bad diagnosing mandates coupled with a campaign of misinformation and demonization and dismissal of any alternative treatment made things worse. AND, if one pays attention to ALL information available FROM VALID, DOCUMENTED SOURCES, we are seeing more and more people literally dropping dead from cardio and respiratory problems each year from the initial vaxx push.

I am not against vaccines, as I and my brothers are recipients of mandatory vaxx from 1958 to 66. I am against the increased "load" that modern kids are faced with, and the questionable content (remember, hell had to be raised for big pharma to cop to using a mercury derivative and subsequently ban it's use). The sheer sandbagging of parents across the country who point to their kids suddenly becoming autistic after getting the vax series was just astounding to me.

That's all.

 

[Scott]

Here's my stance in a nut shell: The covid vaccines were rushed under emergency status and would NEVER HAVE BEEN VETTED under normal FDA standards. Bad diagnosing mandates coupled with a campaign of misinformation and demonization and dismissal of any alternative treatment made things worse. AND, if one pays attention to ALL information available FROM VALID, DOCUMENTED SOURCES, we are seeing more and more people literally dropping dead from cardio and respiratory problems each year from the initial vaxx push.

I am not against vaccines, as I and my brothers are recipients of mandatory vaxx from 1958 to 66. I am against the increased "load" that modern kids are faced with, and the questionable content (remember, hell had to be raised for big pharma to cop to using a mercury derivative and subsequently ban it's use). The sheer sandbagging of parents across the country who point to their kids suddenly becoming autistic after getting the vax series was just astounding to me.

That's all.

Alright. As you probably know, I'm against all vaccines, but that doesn't mean that we can't share a good amount of common ground in relation to the covid vaccines. You also mention mercury, that was about previous vaccines, so it appears that the covid vaccines aren't the only ones you've had reservations about. Tell me, have you seen a documentary called Vaxxed? Robert Deniro has promoted it, though he did also pull it from his Tribeca Film Festival after getting a lot of pressure to do so. Even after that, however, he continued to defend it in general terms. Like you, Robert Deniro has said he's not against vaccines, but rather that he wants safe ones. Here's an article on the subject:

Robert De Niro: 'I'm not anti-vaccine, I want safe vaccines' | The Guardian

In relation to Covid vaccines in particular, I think this article is quite illuminating:

‘Definite Causal Link’ Between COVID Vaccine Rollouts and Peaks in All-Cause Mortality, New Study Finds | Children's Health Defense

From the article:
**
Researchers with Canada-based Correlation Research in the Public Interest found more than half of the countries analyzed had no detectable rise in all-cause mortality after the World Health Organization declared a global pandemic on March 11, 2020 — until after the rollout of the COVID-19 vaccines and boosters.

They also found that all 17 countries, which make up 10.3% of the global population, had an unprecedented rise in all-cause mortality that corresponded directly to vaccine and booster rollouts.

Through a statistical analysis of mortality data, the authors calculated the fatal toxicity risk-per-injection increased significantly with age, but averaged 1 death per 800 injections across all ages and countries.

By that calculation, with 13.5 billion injections given up to Sept. 2, 2023, the researchers estimated there were 17 million COVID-19 vaccination deaths (± 500,000) globally following the vaccine roll-out.
**