For You Libertarian's

[Epicurus]

interesting post. Does not speak well of Bush. However virtually all those here who claim to be Libertarian or leaning voted for Bush at least once, some twice.

Just as wrong as you have always been. I never have.

 

[Epicurus]

For one thing, California voted for Obama by a margin 5 points less than Vermont and 10 points less the Hawaii.

In 2010, Gay marriage is certain to be approved, and proposition 8 will forever be looked at as a blemish of shame in our nations history.

It will be approved, but not because of some vast outpouring of public support for sodomite marriage. Prop 8 essentially snuck by, funded heavily by Mormon money. If it comes up again, the buttpirates will be ready to match and exceed the commitments of the Mormon activists on the other side.

 

[uscitizen]

CA was pretty nice before Gov Ronnie.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Vermont is currently the most liberal state in the union. Read "sexting."

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Vermont is currently the most liberal state in the union. Read "sexting."

So you consider that less radical and absurd the trying children for child pornography charges for taking naked pictures of themselves? Conservative lunacy strikes again.

 

[uscitizen]

Child porn is child porn regardless of who does it.
But if they are minors then the parents are responsible?

 

[Demwit]

No parties openly address the most totalitarian force in our world today: Fiat Currency.

When some people can make money when they want to and others must work for it, there is no stopping a descent to totalitarianism. Currently we see the federal reserve and the banks on a spree of money making, for them and their closest friends.

Currency based on an automobile manufacturer is a bad idea.

 

[Socrtease]

That's a canard. Same sex marriage is an issue that crosses party lines as demonstrated in its being overturned in CA, arguably the most liberal state in the union, just this past November. 70% of Americans still oppose same sex marriage. Half of us American's, including me a republican conservative Christian, have no problem with affording the kinds of legal benefits associated with civil unions.

Protecting the meaning of marriage is not asking for government to save anyone’s soul. *eye-roll*

I'm not talking about same sex marriage. That became your issue after your side lost the criminal sodomy issue. Your side wants homosexuality to be illegal but lost that battle so now you are attacking same sex marriage because that is where the lines have been pushed back to. Eventually, you will lose that battle as well.

 

[Annie]

Lots of things cross the party lines. Many on both sides are pro-life or pro-choice. Many are for closing our borders to illegals, but in favor of legal immigration. Many are divided on Patriot Act and other freedom limiting actions, but to differing degrees.

It seems to me that on the left, the big issues are war, GW (a losing issue, as he's out of office, and torture. They are divided on so many issues, from Global warming emphasis to how far pro-choice should go.

The right, well the mainstream is pro-life, but wouldn't march for. They are pro-gun, but wouldn't show up for curbs on some arms control.

Truth is, Obama should take their 'war bad' front seriously-they will not only march, but vote. Same with spending/tax proposals from the right.

In a way, I feel sorry for Obama, he has such a clear vision, but is going to find his supporters very hostile to his ideas in Afghanistan. I don't think he, or anyone, could have guessed the rise of the conservatives regarding tea parties. He's got his hands full. The right doesn't care, the left senses.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Child porn is child porn regardless of who does it.

Even if its yourself?

You could easily say the same thing of statutory rape, USC, and put 15 year olds who had sex with each other in prison for 20 years. Life no parole for 12 year olds who have sex with each other, BTW. Gotta be consistent - it's a crime no matter who does it.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

In a way, I feel sorry for Obama, he has such a clear vision, but is going to find his supporters very hostile to his ideas in Afghanistan.

Only amongst the extremists, who, of course, are probably going to vote for him anyway.

I don't think he, or anyone, could have guessed the rise of the conservatives regarding tea parties.

The "rise" of the conservatives? Conservatives are weaker than at any point since Reagan's term, Annie. Could you point to any increase in conservative support since you guys began that tea party nonsense?

 

[Annie]

Only amongst the extremists, who, of course, are probably going to vote for him anyway.



The "rise" of the conservatives? Conservatives are weaker than at any point since Reagan's term, Annie. Could you point to any increase in conservative support since you guys began that tea party nonsense?

Yes. Municipalities and states have begun to change spending and tax increases. The whole problem needs to be addressed from bottom up.

 

[uscitizen]

Yes. Municipalities and states have begun to change spending and tax increases. The whole problem needs to be addressed from bottom up.

Seems like our current crisis started at the top.

 

[Annie]

Seems like our current crisis started at the top.

Not in IL. Yeah, Obama was part of that.

 

[Adam Weinberg]

I think part of the problem of trying to pursue policies which are basically libertarian is that too many people get caught up in whether they're going to be labeled as such.

The old saying is you can get a lot more done if you don't care who gets the credit. One trick I learned from legislative work with a minority party is that if you really want a bill passed, you should give it off to another legislator who has the best chance of passing it.

Whether libertarian ideas continue to grow into the mainstream, and whether people identify in greater numbers with libertarian ideas in this country, I think many people are willing to contribute to libertarian results as long as they don't have to be burdened by the ideological baggage of all that.

There aren't enough libertarians in the United States to be politically effective without moderates, liberals and conservatives participating in policy accomplishments that libertarians would endorse.

In a way, that's not much different from some of the other political factions. The Obama years are not going to be considered a ringing endorsement of "liberalism", "leftism" or "socialism". Most Americans aren't terribly comfortable with fully embracing most of these things. His election was a request to fix what's broken under new management.

And so far, the beginning has been a mixed bag for libertarians. Some of the dangerous precedents have been rolled back. Some have been maintained, and on the economic front particularly, a whole new can of worms has been opened.

But that doesn't mean there aren't still opportunities in the years to come to get what we can from the Democrats while trying to have our voice in the GOP.