Free Speech

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I think busting King's balls for his stupid statement is a perfectly valid reason to post what I did. And the overcrowded conditions of prisons is certainly a valid reason to seek some alternative punishment rather than try to squeeze 4.7 million more people into the system. If its overcrowded at 2.2 million, adding 4.7 million is not the answer.

And the change in attitudes can ONLY come from outside pressure. Sending the men to prison to change them is putting outside pressure on them.

Do you actually think the despicable human beings are going to change on their own? You think they are going to wake up one day and think "Gee, I ought to stop hitting my girlfriend"?

If you want them to stop hitting women you either need to change them (read-classes, councilling ect) or you need to completely remove them from anyone they will hit.

Now, since nothing has proven to be 100% effective, what would you suggest we do? Incarcerate almost 5 million men (and remember, that is creditting each with battering 10 women) or should we start making sure men know how to treat women, know how to control their anger, and know what to do?

Of course they should go to prison.

I don't think anyone besides Good Luck wants to make it a lifer offense, though. That's retarded. Just go with my idea and tell the women that know him of what he's been convicted of.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

In case you are not up on crime statistics, the idea that incarceration CHANGES (ie: rehabilitates) criminals has been long debunked as the bunch of mindless cotton candy wishful thinking it really is.

Incarceration is for the protection of society, not for "changing" the attitudes of the criminals. 90% of violent crimes - and that includes domestic violence - are committed by repeat offenders. We have already TRIED compulsory "anger management" counseling, holding hands while singing kumbayah, and all the other cotton candy fluff "we need to change their attitudes" bullstuff. And, just like most of the other touchy-feely methods of crime control, THEY ARE NOT WORKING.

Of course, sending them to a prison with all the amenities of a luxury hotel (another result of the cotton candy approach to criminal justice) does very little to change their minds about their criminal activities either. But it at least prevents them from repeating their offenses, a goal which the methods you support have been proven to be incapable of achieving.

According to my grandad, when my dad was growing up they had a method for dealing with wife (and especially child) beaters that was usually effective with one application. The men of the village would seek out the offender and give him a practical lesson in how it felt to be the victim. (If the perpetrator needed a second application, he was also banished from all villages.) Of course, the White Man, in all his wisdom put a stop to it, (after he decided what goes on in reservations is his business after all - despite treaty guarantees) because we are not supposed to take the law into our own hands. I'll bet you can just guess what happened to domestic abuse levels after such sage interference.

In his time they patted the abuser on the back and critiscized the wife for speaking without being spoken to.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Yeah, you TALK about these SERIOUS work on anger management. Like what? WHAT exactly do you propose that is not already out there being tried, and failing miserably.

Here's a clue for you as far as this being a learned behavior: WHO does the upcoming generation LEARN their violent behavior from? Why it is DADDY (or mommy's live in boy friend - which is a whole other issue of today's society) beating the ever loving shit out of mommy.

Now how is Junior going to learn this behavior from Daddy if Daddy gets his ass tossed in the pokey, not to come back until Junior has grown up? He will instead learn that society has no tolerance for that kind of crap. And without Daddy's negative counter influence, the societal attitudes regarding domestic relationships will have a much greater probability of taking root.

And yes, a violent person who commits violence against another person, gender irrelevant, is by definition a VIOLENT CRIMINAL. It is your kind's brain dead useless wishful thinking "not REALLY a criminal" BULLSHIT that is at the heart of the explosion of violent crime in our society. It's as bad as the old fashioned idea that it was the man's right. Since when does one have to make a living at it to be a fucking CRIMINAL?

And why don't you go look up another statistic. Look up the number of DEATHS that result from a woman being subjected to a REPEAT offense of domestic violence. Go ahead. How does your "SERIOUS work on anger management" propose to deal with that? Let women continue to die until your cotton candy ideas finally, someday in the far, far future when Mankind no longer exists, take effect?

And no, doing violence against a violent criminal is NOT in any way intended (nor has it ever been claimed to) change the violent criminal's mind about violence. I would not propose doing such to, say, someone who does armed robbery, or deliberate homicide. But a man whose tendency is to take his frustrations out on a woman who cannot fight back will often forgo releasing their violent tendencies indiscriminately if he is aware he will receive the same (or worse) back from his community. Domestic violence criminals are cowardly bullies at heart - they do not have the stomach to face what they dish out.

Well, it's true that we have the highest violent crime rate in the developed world while having 5 times more prisoners per capita than Britian, 7 times more than Europe, and 10 times more than Japan. So lets do even MORE of what you're asking - it's worked so well in the past!

 

[Cancel3]

Yeah, you TALK about these SERIOUS work on anger management. Like what? WHAT exactly do you propose that is not already out there being tried, and failing miserably.

Here's a clue for you as far as this being a learned behavior: WHO does the upcoming generation LEARN their violent behavior from? Why it is DADDY (or mommy's live in boy friend - which is a whole other issue of today's society) beating the ever loving shit out of mommy.

Now how is Junior going to learn this behavior from Daddy if Daddy gets his ass tossed in the pokey, not to come back until Junior has grown up? He will instead learn that society has no tolerance for that kind of crap. And without Daddy's negative counter influence, the societal attitudes regarding domestic relationships will have a much greater probability of taking root.

And yes, a violent person who commits violence against another person, gender irrelevant, is by definition a VIOLENT CRIMINAL. It is your kind's brain dead useless wishful thinking "not REALLY a criminal" BULLSHIT that is at the heart of the explosion of violent crime in our society. It's as bad as the old fashioned idea that it was the man's right. Since when does one have to make a living at it to be a fucking CRIMINAL?

And why don't you go look up another statistic. Look up the number of DEATHS that result from a woman being subjected to a REPEAT offense of domestic violence. Go ahead. How does your "SERIOUS work on anger management" propose to deal with that? Let women continue to die until your cotton candy ideas finally, someday in the far, far future when Mankind no longer exists, take effect?

And no, doing violence against a violent criminal is NOT in any way intended (nor has it ever been claimed to) change the violent criminal's mind about violence. I would not propose doing such to, say, someone who does armed robbery, or deliberate homicide. But a man whose tendency is to take his frustrations out on a woman who cannot fight back will often forgo releasing their violent tendencies indiscriminately if he is aware he will receive the same (or worse) back from his community. Domestic violence criminals are cowardly bullies at heart - they do not have the stomach to face what they dish out.

And putting them all in prison is going to do a grand job of teaching junior how to treat women? Sure it will. It will teach him that Mom sent Dad to prison, now he will cherish and respect women.


The rates of success with classes and anger management are better than the rates of changing men by sending them to jail. And unless you plan to make it a life sentence, they will be back out sometime.

And I have no problem sending serious repeat offenders to prison for a LONG time. But sending a first offender to prison for years is counter-productive.

 

[Socrtease]

I deal with domestic abuse on a daily basis. I represent the abused and the abusers. Anger Management classes work on the vast majority of abusers. Alot of them grew up in houses where they saw their parents hit each other in fits of anger. Both men and women engage in this sort of behavior but women don't usually punch and so there is no any really good evidence of domestic violence. Also District Attorney's offices don't prosecute women like they do men. Until 3 years ago our DA's office had an official policy that ALL DV cases of women battering men would be officer prosecuted and the DA's office would not touch them. Also, I don't imagine too many of you know that VAWA does NOT pay through their grants for the prosecution of female abusers, AT ALL. So there is no economic insentive to prosecute the female in these cases, where many times I have gotten women to admit they engaged in mutual combat. I have seen great strides made by men who have actively participated in the anger management courses taught by our local women's shelter. The men learn new ways to handle their anger and how to walk away and cool off. The men that are repeat offenders are a minority and a second offense should be treated as a felony in every state. NM has finally passed a law that makes a second or greater offense of DV a felony.

 

[Cancel3]

I deal with domestic abuse on a daily basis. I represent the abused and the abusers. Anger Management classes work on the vast majority of abusers. Alot of them grew up in houses where they saw their parents hit each other in fits of anger. Both men and women engage in this sort of behavior but women don't usually punch and so there is no any really good evidence of domestic violence. Also District Attorney's offices don't prosecute women like they do men. Until 3 years ago our DA's office had an official policy that ALL DV cases of women battering men would be officer prosecuted and the DA's office would not touch them. Also, I don't imagine too many of you know that VAWA does NOT pay through their grants for the prosecution of female abusers, AT ALL. So there is no economic insentive to prosecute the female in these cases, where many times I have gotten women to admit they engaged in mutual combat. I have seen great strides made by men who have actively participated in the anger management courses taught by our local women's shelter. The men learn new ways to handle their anger and how to walk away and cool off. The men that are repeat offenders are a minority and a second offense should be treated as a felony in every state. NM has finally passed a law that makes a second or greater offense of DV a felony.

Thank you, Soc. Excellent information. I can go along with prosecuting a second offender who has been thru the anger mgmt classes and does it again.