Gabon and Uzbekistan now more civilized than the United States

What's also notable is that the time in our history where we had the greatest amount of executions per capita - the 30's, and it was about twice as high as today - was also the time whenever crime was most rampant. I'll give you a bone for that. Correlation does not equal causation. That's a logical fallacy. So me even bringing that up would be innapropriate.
 
And states without the DP have lower murder rates than states with the DP. If you go here http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=169 you will see that of the 21 states with murder rates higher than the US average, only one, Michigan, does not have the death penalty. those below the national average the remaining states without the death penalty are all below the national average. If the death penalty had any effect one way or another on the murder rate it should be consistent accross the board.
 
AssHatZombie said:
I don't think people think about whether it will be a capital punishment homicide, or a life imprisonment homicide.
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Homicide doesn't equal murder. Manslaughter is a homicide that's accidental. If a police shoots a fleeing suspect and he dies it's a homicide. A drunk driving fatality would be a homicide. Shooting someone in self defense is a homicide. Including those crimes in the graph is retarded.
 
Socrtease said:
And states without the DP have lower murder rates than states with the DP. If you go here http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=169 you will see that of the 21 states with murder rates higher than the US average, only one, Michigan, does not have the death penalty. those below the national average the remaining states without the death penalty are all below the national average. If the death penalty had any effect one way or another on the murder rate it should be consistent accross the board.
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I've always wondered--- are they counting prisoners that are executed as part of the murder rate in those states?
 
Not only do we still execute people even though evidence has shown the US Crimanl System to be itself criminal .. and DNA evidence has proven that we lock up innocent people and that eyewitness testimony is seriously flawed ... we also have the highest number of prisoners that any nation on earth, not only in numbers, but also by capita.

Welcome to the land of the free.
 
blackascoal said:
Not only do we still execute people even though evidence has shown the US Crimanl System to be itself criminal .. and DNA evidence has proven that we lock up innocent people and that eyewitness testimony is seriously flawed ... we also have the highest number of prisoners that any nation on earth, not only in numbers, but also by capita.

Welcome to the land of the free.
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Most of that is the "War on Drugs" which needs to be either totally ended or totally revamped so that non-violent offenders are not spending their lives in prison rather than raising their kids.
 
Watermark said:
Homicide doesn't equal murder. Manslaughter is a homicide that's accidental. If a police shoots a fleeing suspect and he dies it's a homicide. A drunk driving fatality would be a homicide. Shooting someone in self defense is a homicide. Including those crimes in the graph is retarded.
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As long as they're consistently included, it's a wash. unless you think capital punishment dissuades drunk drivers.
 
Socrtease said:
And states without the DP have lower murder rates than states with the DP. If you go here http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=169 you will see that of the 21 states with murder rates higher than the US average, only one, Michigan, does not have the death penalty. those below the national average the remaining states without the death penalty are all below the national average. If the death penalty had any effect one way or another on the murder rate it should be consistent accross the board.
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No. All states are different, and deal with crime in different ways.
 
Southern Man said:
No. All states are different, and deal with crime in different ways.
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Absolutely but the one thing we do know is that the death penalty is solely carried out for vengence. There have been over one hundred people freed from death row that, if DP proponents had their way, would have been executed before they were freed. Something that when it finally happens will put an end to this silly debate once and for all.
 
blackascoal said:
Not only do we still execute people even though evidence has shown the US Crimanl System to be itself criminal .. and DNA evidence has proven that we lock up innocent people and that eyewitness testimony is seriously flawed ... we also have the highest number of prisoners that any nation on earth, not only in numbers, but also by capita.

Welcome to the land of the free.
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Perhaps you would like to move to Australia, where you can be prosecuted for possessing certain video games/movies?

Or perhaps you would like to move to Germany, where the sort of things that are said on this forum day after day are still a criminal offense.

Sarcasm helps nothing, and in this country we take for granted freedoms on a daily basis that the "Socialist Mecca" of Europe does not even enjoy.
 
Socrtease said:
Absolutely but the one thing we do know is that the death penalty is solely carried out for vengence. .....
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The graph speaks otherwise. Since we know it is a deterrent, to not use it is to sentence future innocent victims to death, and not by painless lethal injection either.
 
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