George Will - Reinventing The Second Amendment

FUCK THE POLICE

911 EVERY DAY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../AR2008112102653.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns


Of conservatives' few victories this year, the most cherished came when the Supreme Court, in District of Columbia v. Heller, held for the first time that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to bear arms. Now, however, a distinguished conservative jurist argues that the court's ruling was mistaken and had the principal flaws of Roe v. Wade, the 1973 abortion ruling that conservatives execrate as judicial overreaching. Both rulings, says J. Harvie Wilkinson, suddenly recognized a judicially enforceable right grounded in "an ambiguous constitutional text."

Writing for the Virginia Law Review, Judge Wilkinson of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit says that Heller, like Roe, was disrespectful of legislative judgments, has hurled courts into a political thicket of fine-tuning policy in interminable litigation and traduced federalism. Furthermore, Heller exposed "originalism" -- the doctrine that the Constitution's text means precisely what those who wrote its words meant by them -- as no barrier to "judicial subjectivity."

The Second Amendment says: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Until June, the question was: Is the right guaranteed to individuals and unconnected with military service, or guaranteed only to states as they exercise their right to maintain militias? The court held, 5-4, for the former view.
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In Roe, the court said that the 14th Amendment guarantee of "due process" implies a general right of privacy, within which lurks a hitherto unnoticed abortion right that, although it is "fundamental," the Framers never mentioned. And this right somehow contains the trimester scheme of abortion regulations.

Since 1973 the court has been entangled in the legislative function of adumbrating an abortion code the details of which are, Wilkinson says, "not even remotely suggested by the text or history of the 14th Amendment." Parental consent? Spousal consent? Spousal notification? Parental notification? Waiting periods? Lack of funding for nontherapeutic abortions? Partial-birth abortion procedures? Zoning ordinances that exclude abortion facilities? The court has tried to tickle answers for these and other policy questions from the Constitution.

Conservatives are correct: The court, having asserted a right on which the Constitution is silent, has been writing rules that are detailed, debatable, inescapably arbitrary and irreducibly political. But now, Wilkinson says, conservatives are delighted that Heller has put the court on a similar path.

In Heller, the court was at least dealing with a right the Constitution actually mentions. But the majority and minority justices demonstrated that there are powerful, detailed, historically grounded "originalist" arguments for opposite understandings of what the Framers intended with that right to "keep and bear arms."

Now the court must slog through an utterly predictable torrent of litigation, writing, piecemeal, a federal gun code concerning the newfound individual right. What trigger locks or other safety requirements impermissibly burden the exercise of this right? What registration requirements, background checks, waiting periods for purchasers, ballistic identifications? What restrictions on ammunition? On places where guns may be purchased or carried? On the kinds of people (e.g., those with records of domestic violence) who may own guns? On the number of gun purchases in a month?

Judicial conservatism requires judges to justify their decisions with reference to several restraining principles, including deference to the democratic branches of government and to states' responsibilities under federalism. But, Wilkinson writes, Heller proves that when the only principle is originalism and when conscientious people come to different conclusions about the Framers' intentions, originalist judges must resolve the conflict by voting their policy preferences.

It has been said that the most important word in the Supreme Court's lexicon is not "liberty" or "equality" or even "justice," it is "five." But whereas in baseball a tie goes to the runner, in controversies about the constitutionality of legislation, a tie between serious arguments should, Wilkinson says, tilt judicial judgment to the democratic side -- the legislature.

When rights are unambiguously enumerated, courts should protect them vigorously. But Wilkinson says that when a right's definition is debatable, generous judicial deference should be accorded to legislative judgments -- particularly those of the states, which should enjoy constitutional space to function as laboratories for testing policy variations.

Roe and Heller, says Wilkinson, diminish liberty by "handing our democratic destiny to the courts." Many libertarian conservatives disagree, arguing that the protection of individual liberty requires robust judicial circumscription of democracy.

So, regarding judging, too, conservatism is a house divided. And as Lincoln said (sort of), a house divided against itself is really interesting.
 
I was reading that this morning. Good article.

George Will is one of my favorite commentators. He's the only voice from the right I have on my RSS feed. He's just one of those people on the opposition that you've gotta respect.

Except for that dumbass comment about the "Born in the USA" song.
 
The more I read these opinions of the opinion in Heller the more interested I am to see how the pro second amendment conservatives address this issue since on all other issues they are "constitutionalists" and as Good Luck said earlier about issues surrounding the consitution, if you want it clearer amend it. I wonder does he still feel this way? As someone that believes there are more rights that are to remain free of legislative forces, like all of the unenumerated ones in the 9th, I have little problem with the court spelling out what the second amendment means and I have no problem with Heller, but you rightwingers, you should have some problems with Heller, because as Judge Wilkinson says Heller does makes some leaps that should probably, in the conservative mind, be left to legislators.
 
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yet again two judges show how fucking stupid you can be and still get on a federal bench by claiming that a specifically enumerated right belongs to a state government and not the people, even though it says PEOPLE in the fucking amendment. There is one single reason why people claim the Second Amendment is ambiguous and it's simply because they choose it to be.
 
The biggest thing to clarify what is intended by the 2nd amendment is the source of the "militia" that had just been used to defeat the British. The militia was not an organized state military force. It was people who "beat their plowshares into swords" to serve. It is also plain that the founding fathers expected those same "militia" to remain ready to serve and to remain vigilant against OUR government becoming a tyranny.
 
The more I read these opinions of the opinion in Heller the more interested I am to see how the pro second amendment conservatives address this issue since on all other issues they are "constitutionalists" and as Good Luck said earlier about issues surrounding the consitution, if you want it clearer amend it. I wonder does he still feel this way? As someone that believes there are more rights that are to remain free of legislative forces, like all of the unenumerated ones in the 9th, I have little problem with the court spelling out what the second amendment means and I have no problem with Heller, but you rightwingers, you should have some problems with Heller, because as Judge Wilkinson says Heller does makes some leaps that should probably, in the conservative mind, be left to legislators.
Like what? "The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The idea that the 2nd A refers to state militia is totalitarian liberal bullshit and has always been totalitarian liberal bullshit. No where else in the entire document, nor the minutes of the Constitutional Congress, does the term "the people" refer to a collective right belonging to the states.

SCOTUS finally had the set needed to acknowledge the fact that when an enumerated right refers to THE PEOPLE, then it fucking well means THE PEOPLE. Heller is nothing more than a declaration of what the 2nd amendment means. The decision did not add meaning to it, nor subtract meaning from it. And that is the job of SCOTUS.

OTOH, the exclusionary rule (as was brought up in another discussion) is a judicially written law. There was a hole in the 4th and 5th Amendments that did not address any consequence to the state for violating the protections of the individual provided by the amendments. So the courts plugged a hole that needed to be plugged. It was a positive good FIRST move, but IMO, it is not good enough to end this type of change a judicial decision. It's not good enough because judicial decisions are too easy to change. All it takes is a case at the right time with a complement leaning the opposite direction. There are multiple instances of a later SCOTUS overturning the decision of an earlier SCOTUS. Conversely, there is only ONE instance of an amendment overturning an earlier amendment - and that was a particularly bad amendment. It is unlikely in the extreme that a good amendment (ie: one that protects liberties) will ever be overturned. But all it takes to overturn the exclusionary rule is 5 Justices that decide the safety of the body politic takes precedence over rights of a convicted criminal.

Call me paranoid, but I prefer my liberties protected by the strongest means possible. A court decision is NOT the strongest means possible to protect us from the excesses of government.
 
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The more I read these opinions of the opinion in Heller the more interested I am to see how the pro second amendment conservatives address this issue since on all other issues they are "constitutionalists" and as Good Luck said earlier about issues surrounding the consitution, if you want it clearer amend it. I wonder does he still feel this way? As someone that believes there are more rights that are to remain free of legislative forces, like all of the unenumerated ones in the 9th, I have little problem with the court spelling out what the second amendment means and I have no problem with Heller, but you rightwingers, you should have some problems with Heller, because as Judge Wilkinson says Heller does makes some leaps that should probably, in the conservative mind, be left to legislators.
The tenth Amendment then makes it clear that while rights might be unenumerated, the powers were not. Any power which was not given to the Federal Government is either the States' or the individual's. That one still hasn't changed. The 14th spreads those rights around so states could no longer have an official religion as some did beforehand. IMO, just randomly picking ones that are "incorporated" or not is something that is outside the powers of the judicial, and the legislative is seriously limited in what they can do about weapons because of the 2nd.

I think that they should maintain that picking and choosing the "incorporated" rights is simply imaginary law that wasn't written into the constitution.

However the past few weeks I have maintained that a strict constitutional reading would limit the legislative power to "define" certain words in specified ways that endorse or incorporate religious beliefs into it. I fully understand that some of what the "right" wants would never be kosher under a strict interpretation of the constitution.
 
Like what? "The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The idea that the 2nd A refers to state militia is totalitarian liberal bullshit and has always been totalitarian liberal bullshit. No where else in the entire document, nor the minutes of the Constitutional Congress, does the term "the people" refer to a collective right belonging to the states.

SCOTUS finally had the set needed to acknowledge the fact that when an enumerated right refers to THE PEOPLE, then it fucking well means THE PEOPLE. Heller is nothing more than a declaration of what the 2nd amendment means. The decision did not add meaning to it, nor subtract meaning from it. And that is the job of SCOTUS.

OTOH, the exclusionary rule (as was brought up in another discussion) is a judicially written law. There was a hole in the 4th and 5th Amendments that did not address any consequence to the state for violating the protections of the individual provided by the amendments. So the courts plugged a hole that needed to be plugged. It was a positive good FIRST move, but IMO, it is not good enough to end this type of change a judicial decision. It's not good enough because judicial decisions are too easy to change. All it takes is a case at the right time with a complement leaning the opposite direction. There are multiple instances of a later SCOTUS overturning the decision of an earlier SCOTUS. Conversely, there is only ONE instance of an amendment overturning an earlier amendment - and that was a particularly bad amendment. It is unlikely in the extreme that a good amendment (ie: one that protects liberties) will ever be overturned. But all it takes to overturn the exclusionary rule is 5 Justices that decide the safety of the body politic takes precedence over rights of a convicted criminal.

Call me paranoid, but I prefer my liberties protected by the strongest means possible. A court decision is NOT the strongest means possible to protect us from the excesses of government.

Oh yes, any objective person who disagrees with the party line of the failed National Republican Association is a totalitarian. Sound logic there.
 
Oh yes, any objective person who disagrees with the party line of the failed National Republican Association is a totalitarian. Sound logic there.
Is it truly "objective" to look at the wording of the 2nd Amendment, and claim it is meant to be a state's right in spite of the term THE PEOPLE being specifically used? Is this an "objective" assessment when every other time in the Constitution, as well as all minutes of the Constitutional Convention, the term "THE PEOPLE" refers specifically to the rights of the individual? Is it "objective" to claim "THE PEOPLE" refers to the right of the STATE to keep a militia when every other time in the Constitution, and in the minutes of the Constitutional Convention, when a the rights of the states are discussed, the term "STATE" is used?

I think not. The idea that "THE PEOPLE" really means the state is so obvious a lie it is truly pathetic the number of brain dead twits taken in by it. When it comes to blindly following a lie because the lie supports their preconceptions, the bushites have NOTHING on the anti gun twits.

However it IS logical to look at history, and find that EVERY SINGLE TIME the leftists have been allowed their way with gun control, it has ALWAYS resulted in confiscatory laws being enacted. It may not happen right away, but it ALWAYS has ended up that way. In my book that is totalitarian. Of course, to a totalitarian, it is only "logical". It is also not illogical to note that many times in history, the disarmament of the population was followed within a generation or less, by institution of a totalitarian government.

Now that does not mean every one who believes the lie about the 2nd amendment referring to states' rights is a totalitarian. But the people who invented the lie, and use it to support their anti-gun agendas are definitely totalitarians.
 
Call me paranoid, but I prefer my liberties protected by the strongest means possible. A court decision is NOT the strongest means possible to protect us from the excesses of government.

Absolutely, and well said. George Will makes an interesting point, but the point should be that judges should not be defining our rights. Good amendments and constitutional protections should clearly define what government cannot do.
 
Great, no one should enforce our rights. Great world you anti-freedom guys want to live in.

still lacking in constitutional republic aspects of government are we?

WE THE PEOPLE enforce our rights. The government is constitutionally mandated to protect those rights. The judicial branch is there to stop the government from infringing on those rights when needed.

In your utopia, what do you do when the courts fail in their responsibility?
 
still lacking in constitutional republic aspects of government are we?

WE THE PEOPLE enforce our rights. The government is constitutionally mandated to protect those rights. The judicial branch is there to stop the government from infringing on those rights when needed.

In your utopia, what do you do when the courts fail in their responsibility?

I have "WE TEH PEOPLESZ?!" to enforce my rights AS WELL as the courts when the people feel like trampling on them. When they both fail (like during the atrocious Heller ruling), I'm screwed, and gun nuts are free to terrorize me, but it's better than nothing.
 
I have "WE TEH PEOPLESZ?!" to enforce my rights AS WELL as the courts when the people feel like trampling on them. When they both fail (like during the atrocious Heller ruling), I'm screwed, and gun nuts are free to terrorize me, but it's better than nothing.

i gotta know, whats atrocious from the heller ruling other than the fact they didn't pin strict scrutiny to the decision?
 
That they invented the right to terrorize other citizens with guns, which never existed before.

then you need some serious reading comprehension classes because the heller decision only found the right to keep a loaded handgun in the home, which always existed. nothing more, nothing less.
 
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