GOP blocking the Speculation bill

Dungheap said:
Your objections to the bill may be well-founded, but that doesn't mean that the bill should be filibustered. It just means that people should vote against it.
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You know very well that important issues are filibustered when there are issues such as this to a bill regularly and responsibly. IMO, this filibuster is well-founded based on the past and how the government will attempt a quick patch and ignore method to issues that are far too important for that.

I do not think that 28 Amendments are necessary, however, and think that both parties are mucking with the issue so they can have an election-year issue.
 
fuck that on the vote, dems stopped a shit load of stuff over the last 10yrs.
Republicans need to filibuster this pile of shit as long as it takes to kill it.
 
Topspin said:
fuck that on the vote, dems stopped a shit load of stuff over the last 10yrs.
Republicans need to filibuster this pile of shit as long as it takes to kill it.
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spoken like a true greedy oil guy that has no consideration for the pain his greed causes others. ie Selfsh bastard.
:clink:
 
Damocles said:
What it does is make it so they can pretend that they have solved the issue. As I said, they purposefully made it untenable so that they could position themselves to attempt to look "victimized". You just fall for it.

This isn't "interim" solution, this is what the Ds believe should be done. They do not want to speak of the bridge of time from now and when the research finally bears fruit.
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That's bullshit and you know it. The Dems have proposed much more wide-ranging legislation earlier this session that included expanding use of alternative energy sources and energy conservation and efficiency tax credits among, among others. The Dems brought up a second piece of legislation that included reigning in speculators, cutting tax credits to oil companies, imposing windfall taxes on oil companies and to address concerns of price gouging.

Those bills were also filibustered. This is a compromise bill to address one particular concern and is hardly an attempt by the Democrats to tackle the whole problem. It's a huge leap from where they were (I concede that where they were previously was ridiculous, i.e. windfall tax)

What is so damned untenable about this particular bill?

I don't get it.
 
Speculators provide liquidity and assume risk. No one cries when they loss.
 
Dungheap said:
That's bullshit and you know it. The Dems have proposed much more wide-ranging legislation earlier this session that included expanding use of alternative energy sources and energy conservation and efficiency tax credits among, among others. The Dems brought up a second piece of legislation that included reigning in speculators, cutting tax credits to oil companies, imposing windfall taxes on oil companies and to address concerns of price gouging.

Those bills were also filibustered. This is a compromise bill to address one particular concern and is hardly an attempt by the Democrats to tackle the whole problem. It's a huge leap from where they were (I concede that where they were previously was ridiculous, i.e. windfall tax)

What is so damned untenable about this particular bill?

I don't get it.
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Again, they picked it as the issue. And also again, the past has shown us that patches become permanent "fixes" and are full of Phail.

And all of what you list does nothing to get us any less dependent on foreign oil for the interim time. That "bridge" I spoke of earlier. And what makes it untenable is the desire to ignore any discussion that might make us closer to energy independence that doesn't involve the word "research".

I believe that we will, in time, find a solution to the need for carbon-based energy. But in the interim we need to work towards far more independence than we have currently.
 
Damocles said:
Again, they picked it as the issue. And also again, the past has shown us that patches become permanent "fixes" and are full of Phail.

And all of what you list does nothing to get us any less dependent on foreign oil for the interim time. That "bridge" I spoke of earlier. And what makes it untenable is the desire to ignore any discussion that might make us closer to energy independence that doesn't involve the word "research".

I believe that we will, in time, find a solution to the need for carbon-based energy. But in the interim we need to work towards far more independence than we have currently.
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OK, and what do you propose in the "interim" and how long does this "interim" last?

What the Democrats are trying to deal with are immediate short-term price issues, which will not be impacted one iota by anything the Republicans are proposing be added to this bill.

As for the "research" dig, maybe you should try to educate yourself on the issue you like to talk about rather than trying to score dumbass rhetorical points.
 
Dungheap said:
OK, and what do you propose in the "interim" and how long does this "interim" last?

What the Democrats are trying to deal with are immediate short-term price issues, which will not be impacted one iota by anything the Republicans are proposing be added to this bill.

As for the "research" dig, maybe you should try to educate yourself on the issue you like to talk about rather than trying to score dumbass rhetorical points.
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The "interim" would last as long as it takes to find the new solution. You know the one that is aimed at by funding the research? That one.

I think we should work towards independence while seeking that new solution.

And what the Dems are trying is mostly idiotic crap like windfall taxes and opening the reserves. Rubbish patches. We need real long-term solutions that force the legislators into serious discussion. There is no quick fix.
 
Damocles said:
The "interim" would last as long as it takes to find the new solution. You know the one that is aimed at by funding the research? That one.

I think we should work towards independence while seeking that new solution.

And what the Dems are trying is mostly idiotic crap like windfall taxes and opening the reserves. Rubbish patches. We need real long-term solutions that force the legislators into serious discussion. There is no quick fix.
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You're just being obtuse now, demanding an all or nothing approach right now rather than working on what can be done to control the price side in the short-term while looking to develop long-term solutions.

Again, what is the particular problem with this bill?
 
Dungheap said:
You're just being obtuse now, demanding an all or nothing approach right now rather than working on what can be done to control the price side in the short-term while looking to develop long-term solutions.

Again, what is the particular problem with this bill?
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No, you are being obtuse. Demanding agreement to quick fix legislation that will, as seen in the past, not fix anything nor be "quick" so that they can feel like they've done something is not what we need. This issue is way too important for that. It's like pretending that amnesty fixes illegal immigration.

I get sick of feel-good temp bs that does nothing at all to solve the issue of dependence.
 
This is a paper tiger, nobody complained one iota when the oil companies were losing money as the speculators kept the prices artificially low. Where was the "fix" then?
 
Damocles said:
No, you are being obtuse. Demanding agreement to quick fix legislation that will, as seen in the past, not fix anything nor be "quick" so that they can feel like they've done something is not what we need. This issue is way too important for that. It's like pretending that amnesty fixes illegal immigration.

I get sick of feel-good temp bs that does nothing at all to solve the issue of dependence.
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Well, Damocles, the issue they are trying to solve is price manipulation by speculators, not dependence and not overall energy policy.

Basically, you don't want Congress to do anything related to energy until they are prepared to do everything you want. That's asinine.
 
Damocles said:
This is a paper tiger, nobody complained one iota when the oil companies were losing money as the speculators kept the prices artificially low. Where was the "fix" then?
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Ah, we finally get to the rub of it. Damo, like the Republican leadership, doesn't want speculators to be regulated any more than they currently are so he's pitching a hissy fit, just like the Republican leadership.
 
Dungheap said:
Well, Damocles, the issue they are trying to solve is price manipulation by speculators, not dependence and not overall energy policy.

Basically, you don't want Congress to do anything related to energy until they are prepared to do everything you want. That's asinine.
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BS.

Once the patches begin they do not end. One issue at a time thrown together to show they are "doing something" will be the end result and a future even larger problem will arise through this inanity.

Again, this is like pretending that illegal immigration gets "fixed" by amnesty programs. An effect of the market is not the problem.

I'm glad they are focusing on a long-term solution, and wish the Ds would rather than attempt quick patches so they can have an emotive issue for election time.
 
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