Have the Parties Learned Anything?

[KingCondanomation]

Hopefully, the Rs will learn they need to return to limited government ideas. At the very least with lip service.

It won't matter, too many Libertarianish people who don't follow their own philosophy of judging people (including Repub reps) as individuals and instead see them all the same and don't bother to realize that MOST of them do vote for limited government but not a majority.

Hopefully, the Ds learned something from the R implosion and won't go power mad and overestimate their "mandate."

???
The Repubs never overestimated their mandate (of continuing limited government of the 90's), they underestimated it, by a lot.

 

[Timshel]

Dano! The Repubs had to be punished. If you had taken care of it in 04 you might still hold congress.

 

[Timshel]

It's your fucking fault for letting W destroy the GOP. McCain sucked too. Rewarding him would only have encouraged Repubs to continue their big government ways.

 

[KingCondanomation]

"It is absolute and total LUNACY to believe he will be better at controlling the Dem majority house and senate's spending than even any generic Republican, let alone one like McCain who at least in some areas has been vigilant about stopping government growth (ie: pork and healthcare). "

I disagree wholeheartedly. He just won a BIG victory, and if he gets NC & Indiana, it's fairly overwhelming. This gives him much more power over Congress, and he is - if you haven't noticed - a very pragmatic, forward-looking guy. He's thinking 8 years, and he understands the mistakes of the past.

It is completely irrelevant how big or small his victory margin is, he has the same control over congress either way. He'll be thinking about his next 4 of 8 years in 2012. He will use the next 3 years to push his agenda and blame fiscal problems on the "mess the Repubs left him", you watch. Parties pull this all the time, the Repubs tried it on Clinton for the natural downturn if 2001.

Look for him to take Congress much more toward the middle than anyone on the right expects.

Well maybe you're right, yes I will go with your internet opinion over my 4 years of observing his voting record.

I don't what more I can argue, the numbers are right there, he was the 8th most partisan senator, I can understand what people wish to believe after Bush, but Obama is more style than substance when it comes to trying to make himself look like change.

 

[KingCondanomation]

Dano! The Repubs had to be punished. If you had taken care of it in 04 you might still hold congress.

Your punishment involves universal healthcare and will be felt for generations forever, can you say the same of the Iraq war?

 

[Good Luck]

If the democrats treat this as anything other than Bush pushing people to their side, they'll find out in 2010 just how little their more extreme ideas are liked.

 

[KingCondanomation]

It's your fucking fault for letting W destroy the GOP. McCain sucked too. Rewarding him would only have encouraged Repubs to continue their big government ways.

Maybe, we'll never know. McCain, I think, got the lesson earlier than you think it still needs to be taught. Remember's Damo's signature?

"Lately, we have increased the size of government in order to stay in office. And soon, soon, if we don't remember what we were elected to do, we will lose both our principles and our office, and we will leave as part of our legacy a mountain of debt and bankrupt entitlement programs that our children's grandchildren will be suffering from long after we have departed this earth." - John McCain

 

[Onceler]

"It is completely irrelevant how big or small his victory margin is, he has the same control over congress either way. He'll be thinking about his next 4 of 8 years in 2012. He will use the next 3 years to push his agenda and blame fiscal problems on the "mess the Repubs left him", you watch. Parties pull this all the time, the Repubs tried it on Clinton for the natural downturn if 2001."

How can you post on political message boards for years, and still know nothing about politics?

A decisive Obama victory, like we're seeing right now, gives him much more political clout over Reid & Pelosi than a narrow, '04 type victory. That's an easy one to figure out.

You also don't seem to be able to understand that Obama is an intelligent, pragmatic politician. He will be nothing like your characterization - trying to ram through huge spending for 3 years, blaming Bush the whole way on deficits. You sound delusional when you talk like this.

Oh - and the world markets are soaring right now on an Obama victory. Another bad call by you.

 

[Timshel]

It is completely irrelevant how big or small his victory margin is, he has the same control over congress either way. He'll be thinking about his next 4 of 8 years in 2012. He will use the next 3 years to push his agenda and blame fiscal problems on the "mess the Repubs left him", you watch. Parties pull this all the time, the Repubs tried it on Clinton for the natural downturn if 2001.

Natural downturn?

 

[ironhead]

Dano, you don't seem to want to talk about how power-hungry and abusive of power the Bush administration has been. They have expanded executive power beyond comprehension. They have waged wars and expanded government power while parading as spreading democracy. People are stupid, but eventually they realize what is going on. This is why the GOP must re-evaluate. They really need to drop the rabid social conservatism of the evangelicals.

Sadly, most people are under the impression that Obama will change all of this, when he is likely to continue most of it. At least there is the symbolic progress of electing an African-American to the most powerful office in the nation. The problem is that office has far too much power - more than even Patrick Henry feared it would posses.

 

[KingCondanomation]

So what? Obama is a young man probably hoping for two terms and he is no fool.

Bush was hoping for 2 terms too. That's pretty much ALL the Rove strategy was about. Pass Liberal ideas and take away the verbal hammers they can use about Repubs "not doing anything" come reelection time.

Who really hasn't learned anything?

 

[KingCondanomation]

"It is completely irrelevant how big or small his victory margin is, he has the same control over congress either way. He'll be thinking about his next 4 of 8 years in 2012. He will use the next 3 years to push his agenda and blame fiscal problems on the "mess the Repubs left him", you watch. Parties pull this all the time, the Repubs tried it on Clinton for the natural downturn if 2001."

How can you post on political message boards for years, and still know nothing about politics?

A decisive Obama victory, like we're seeing right now, gives him much more political clout over Reid & Pelosi than a narrow, '04 type victory. That's an easy one to figure out.

URRGGH, they are on the same side and they have the same philosophy! Who can remember even ONE SINGLE person saying "Hey well Bush got in with a bigger majority in 2004 so that should help him with clout over Tom Delay!"
It makes no sense.
I mean geezus, out of the 3 I would trust Reid to be better with spending and only by very little, again going by voting record.

You also don't seem to be able to understand that Obama is an intelligent, pragmatic politician. He will be nothing like your characterization - trying to ram through huge spending for 3 years, blaming Bush the whole way on deficits. You sound delusional when you talk like this.

He's a very intelligent politician.

Oh - and the world markets are soaring right now on an Obama victory. Another bad call by you.

They are soaring for bailout cash which is coming through now, read it earlier today in an article Watermark posted which fully accredited the upswing to the bailout. Which was expected and IMHO will be short term.

And I think if we've both learned one thing on this board it is that investors (Topspin and Chapdog) aren't exactly the brightest people to decide much.

 

[Onceler]

"URRGGH, they are on the same side and they have the same philosophy! Who can remember even ONE SINGLE person saying "Hey well Bush got in with a bigger majority in 2004 so that should help him with clout over Tom Delay!"
It makes no sense."

Yeah - makes no sense; that's why analysts from a variety of political spectrums, from Krauthammer to Gergen to Matthews, were talking about that very thing tonight.

One of these days, you'll just have to admit that you don't know as much about politics as you think you do. Seriously, this one is a NO BRAINER. With a marginal victory, Reid & Pelosi would have much more say politically. What happened tonight puts Obama in the driver's seat.

Once again, you're "instincts" on what you think happens in your narrow view of the political world are seldom, if ever, correct.

And the markets right now are clearly responding to Obama's victory; your excuses on that one are just kinda sad.

 

[KingCondanomation]

"URRGGH, they are on the same side and they have the same philosophy! Who can remember even ONE SINGLE person saying "Hey well Bush got in with a bigger majority in 2004 so that should help him with clout over Tom Delay!"
It makes no sense."

Yeah - makes no sense; that's why analysts from a variety of political spectrums, from Krauthammer to Gergen to Matthews, were talking about that very thing tonight.

One of these days, you'll just have to admit that you don't know as much about politics as you think you do. Seriously, this one is a NO BRAINER. With a marginal victory, Reid & Pelosi would have much more say politically. What happened tonight puts Obama in the driver's seat.

Once again, you're "instincts" on what you think happens in your narrow view of the political world are seldom, if ever, correct.

You don't seem to be able to get it. Pelosi, Reid and Obama all pretty much have the same voting record. So regardless of who has more "clout", they are going to work together because they HAVE worked together and voted together and will still do that.
Sure maybe Obama gets to take more credit, but it means nothing in terms of what will get passed.
They are not going to work against each other. Maybe if you had a moderate like Richardson or Landrieu or Nelson, but you don't.

And the markets right now are clearly responding to Obama's victory; your excuses on that one are just kinda sad.

Sigh, ok then evidence. uscitizen posted this earlier today:

U.S. Stocks Advance in Biggest Election Day Rally Since 1984

By Elizabeth Stanton

Nov. 4 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks advanced in the biggest presidential Election Day rally in 24 years, led by energy and banking shares, on higher commodity prices and speculation the Treasury will bail out more financial companies.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide

And that is a short term boost, they are already talking about more bailouts. I'm sure president Joe Blow could make the stock markets excited and topspin get a boner by piling up debt to give cash to companies. It does not make for long term prosperity.

 

[Onceler]

World markets cheer Obama win
Asian stocks rally after election. U.S. stock futures slightly higher.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/04/markets/election_reaction/index.htm

"The international markets are certainly celebrating an Obama victory," said Jack Ablin, chief investment officer at Harris Private Bank in Chicago. "From the world perspective, Obama is perceived as a better candidate and I think they are voting with their dollars."

Another analyst echoed the sentiment. "Outside the U.S., Obama has a lot of people rooting for him and that is what is giving an early lift in their own time zones," said Stuart Hoffman, chief economist at PNC Financial Services Group.


There you go, dumbo...

 

[Timshel]

Bush was hoping for 2 terms too. That's pretty much ALL the Rove strategy was about. Pass Liberal ideas and take away the verbal hammers they can use about Repubs "not doing anything" come reelection time.

And so what don't you understand? Why is Obama going to give the repubs verbal hammers??? He's not. He will stay moderate, taking away the socialist/big government verbal hammers come reelection time.

Who really hasn't learned anything?

You have not. Why is it more important to you that big government programs come from Repubs than Dems?

 

[KingCondanomation]

World markets cheer Obama win
Asian stocks rally after election. U.S. stock futures slightly higher.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/04/markets/election_reaction/index.htm

"The international markets are certainly celebrating an Obama victory," said Jack Ablin, chief investment officer at Harris Private Bank in Chicago. "From the world perspective, Obama is perceived as a better candidate and I think they are voting with their dollars."

Another analyst echoed the sentiment. "Outside the U.S., Obama has a lot of people rooting for him and that is what is giving an early lift in their own time zones," said Stuart Hoffman, chief economist at PNC Financial Services Group.


There you go, dumbo...

And why are they cheering him? Are they interested in his boost in the capital gains tax rate so they can enjoy shelling out more money to the US government for any gains they make? ROFL!
Or do they realize that Dems are more interested in government bailouts and Obama was a strong supporter of it?

You know there's an old saying when it comes to the role of lefties in government and business:
"If it moves, tax it, if it keeps moving, tax it some more and if stops, subsidize it".

I'm sure investors are very eager to get the short term boost of whatever juicy bailouts Obama will give. Unfortunately, there's this little you know thing called debt that stands at oh you know somewhere over 10 trillion now and well it's not really getting any smaller and someday you won't be able to borrow any more...well see how investors like Obama then...

 

[KingCondanomation]

And so what don't you understand? Why is Obama going to give the repubs verbal hammers??? He's not. He will stay moderate, taking away the socialist/big government verbal hammers come reelection time.

Stay moderate? Don't you have to be a moderate first in order to stay one? Did you miss his voting record?

As for verbal hammers, let me give you and example of what I mean. In the 2000 election Gore's big spending "idea" was the prescription drug bill. Bush didn't have one, but when Bush got elected, the Dems kept on him about it. Rove strategy was to pass a Repub pill bill and take that issue away from the Dems, so that they would not be faced in 2004 with continued accusations of "not caring for seniors" and "not getting anything done".

Obama doesn't need to worry about the Repubs verbal hammers over universal healthcare in 2012 because he will just spout shit about how bad the Repubs were on spending when they were in power before, thus blunting it. You already see that now.

You have not. Why is it more important to you that big government programs come from Repubs than Dems?

Cute. Obviously it's not, I just have the temperance to do more than get vengeance on Repubs to the point where I don't bother to even take the time to look at how the Dems were on spending as a primer for deducing how they will be when in power. And they will be worse.

I'd like to get back to limited government, but that isn't the public mood right now, sometimes the best you can sadly settle for is the lesser of 2 (spending) evils. There is little question that there would be less spending with McCain as prez instead of Obama.

 

[ib1yysguy]

Bush got reelected because he passed the pill bill. okay, dano.

 

[Cancel3]

The boost in the world markets, whether they are from the bailout money or because of Obama, are not going to fix our economy. That is going to take years. Its not something Obama can do in his first 100 days, or maybe even in his first 2 years. Its a long term problem that doesn't have a quick fix.

The war in Iraq is not going to be fixed in any short term manner either. Its a complicated situation that will take time to remedy.

Today is about a fresh start at the problems. It is about replacing an administration and working on the disastors they left behind.

If Obama swings hard to the far left, he won't be reelected. And if congress follows him to the far left, the power will shift in 2 or 4 years. Obama knows this. He will, in all likelihood, work from a centrist position. Its the most viable way to get the changes he wants.