Hello from Bfgrn

Bfgrn

Bfgrn

New member
Hi...
I too am a refugee from the AOL boards...Tom Prendergast, another AOL refugee sent me an e-mail to tell me about this board...

I'm an American liberal/libertarian ... My political views are in line with John F. Kennedy and some of Barry Goldwater's libertarian views...

BTW, those two men were good friends...

I'm an independent; I'm not affiliated with any party. I've voted for Republicans and Democrats, but I don't see myself voting Republican on the national level anytime soon. IMO, with proof if challenged, the GOP has been hijacked by far right theocrat Christians and far left neoconservative hawks that the Democrats jettisoned after Vietnam tore apart that party...



"We have all made mistakes. But Dante tells us that divine justice weighs the sins of the cold-blooded and the sins of the warm-hearted on different scales. Better the occasional faults of a party living in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a party frozen in the ice of its own indifference."
President John F. Kennedy
 
Good Afternoon.

Someone will be along shortly to scream vile abuse at you for being something you're probably not, but in the meantime feel free to have a look around and wallow in our laughable ignorance.

Good Luck. ;)
 
Hi, glad to see you here. :)

Bfgrn said:
Hi...
I too am a refugee from the AOL boards...Tom Prendergast, another AOL refugee sent me an e-mail to tell me about this board...

I'm an American liberal/libertarian ... My political views are in line with John F. Kennedy and some of Barry Goldwater's libertarian views...

BTW, those two men were good friends...

I'm an independent; I'm not affiliated with any party. I've voted for Republicans and Democrats, but I don't see myself voting Republican on the national level anytime soon. IMO, with proof if challenged, the GOP has been hijacked by far right theocrat Christians and far left neoconservative hawks that the Democrats jettisoned after Vietnam tore apart that party...



"We have all made mistakes. But Dante tells us that divine justice weighs the sins of the cold-blooded and the sins of the warm-hearted on different scales. Better the occasional faults of a party living in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a party frozen in the ice of its own indifference."
President John F. Kennedy
Click to expand...
 
Damocles said:
Kennedy and Nixon were also good friends. The crowds you run with, eh?
Click to expand...

Kennedy did like Nixon, they were contemporaries and came up together.

But Kennedy made an interesting and as it turns out a profound comment to Dave Powers after JFK and Nixon met poolside at Nixon's oceanfront villa in Key Biscayne after the 1960 election...

"You know Dave, it's good for you, me and everyone that guy didn't quite make it"

Goldwater didn't have the same opinion of Nixon:
"Nixon was the most dishonest individual I have ever met in my life. He lied to his wife, his family, his friends, his colleagues in the Congress, lifetime members of his own political party, the American people and the world."
Barry Goldwater
 
Bfgrn said:
Kennedy did like Nixon, they were contemporaries and came up together.

But Kennedy made an interesting and as it turns out a profound comment to Dave Powers after JFK and Nixon met poolside at Nixon's oceanfront villa in Key Biscayne after the 1960 election...

"You know Dave, it's good for you, me and everyone that guy didn't quite make it"

Goldwater didn't have the same opinion of Nixon:
"Nixon was the most dishonest individual I have ever met in my life. He lied to his wife, his family, his friends, his colleagues in the Congress, lifetime members of his own political party, the American people and the world."
Barry Goldwater
Click to expand...
Goldwater had the benefit of hindsight that Kennedy never had and stated this stuff after Nixon resigned in disgrace.

Nixon stated once, "If I was to lose to anybody, I'm glad it was him." about Kennedy.
 
Damocles said:
Goldwater had the benefit of hindsight that Kennedy never had and stated this stuff after Nixon resigned in disgrace.
Click to expand...

That would mean Kennedy had foresight...


"Washington couldn't tell a lie, Nixon couldn't tell the truth, and Reagan couldn't tell the difference."
Mort Sahl
 
Bfgrn said:
That would mean Kennedy had foresight...


"Washington couldn't tell a lie, Nixon couldn't tell the truth, and Reagan couldn't tell the difference."
Mort Sahl
Click to expand...
M'eh. People say that of their opponents often when they like them. Kennedy, like all politicians, believed he had the correct answers. Instead he led us into the Bay of Pigs which caused the missile crisis and began the irresponsible deficit spending that has never ceased since he was President. Including when Nixon got in... maybe he was a psychic, too bad he didn't use the power on himself.
 
Damocles said:
M'eh. People say that of their opponents often when they like them. Kennedy, like all politicians, believed he had the correct answers. Instead he led us into the Bay of Pigs which caused the missile crisis and began the irresponsible deficit spending that has never ceased since he was President. Including when Nixon got in... maybe he was a psychic, too bad he didn't use the power on himself.
Click to expand...

Kennedy didn't lead us into the Bay of Pigs invasion. It was planned by the CIA while Eisenhower was still in office. Kennedy went along with it, probably due to inexperience... BUT...he also told Dulles and Bissell (CIA) that he would not invade Cuba. Dulles and Bissell LIED to Kennedy...the Cuban exile's invasion NEVER had a chance of succeeding and Dulles and Bissell KNEW it never had a chance of succeeding without Kennedy sending in US troops... but they thought Kennedy would cave in the heat of battle...he didn't.

It turns out the Bay of Pigs is the biggest blessing in American history. Because without it, you and I most likely wouldn't BE HERE!

Everything JFK learned from that incident culminated in his wisdom and resolve to find a non-military solution during the Cuban Missile Crisis...he went against all his advisers that wanted to invade Cuba and take out the missiles...and Kennedy was assured by the military brass that there were no nuclear warhead on the island...

At a conference on the 40th anniversary of the crisis in Havana, US officials like Bob McNamara were stunned to learn that if U.S. forces had invaded Cuba, Russian commanders HAD nuclear armed missiles on the island and they were authorized to respond if attacked. Ted Sorensen noted "The Joint Chiefs had assured Kennedy during the crisis that no nuclear warheads were in Cuba at the time....They were wrong." If Kennedy had listened to his military advisers', a large part of the USA, including Washington DC would be a smoking hole.

JFK said to Bobby at the height of the crisis "one thing about the brass' solution to every problem is there would be no one left to tell them they were wrong"


"And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem."
President John F. Kennedy
 
Bfgrn said:
Kennedy didn't lead us into the Bay of Pigs invasion. It was planned by the CIA while Eisenhower was still in office. Kennedy went along with it, probably due to inexperience... BUT...he also told Dulles and Bissell (CIA) that he would not invade Cuba. Dulles and Bissell LIED to Kennedy...the Cuban exile's invasion NEVER had a chance of succeeding and Dulles and Bissell KNEW it never had a chance of succeeding without Kennedy sending in US troops... but they thought Kennedy would cave in the heat of battle...he didn't.

It turns out the Bay of Pigs is the biggest blessing in American history. Because without it, you and I most likely wouldn't BE HERE!

Everything JFK learned from that incident culminated in his wisdom and resolve to find a non-military solution during the Cuban Missile Crisis...he went against all his advisers that wanted to invade Cuba and take out the missiles...and Kennedy was assured by the military brass that there were no nuclear warhead on the island...

At a conference on the 40th anniversary of the crisis in Havana, US officials like Bob McNamara were stunned to learn that if U.S. forces had invaded Cuba, Russian commanders HAD nuclear armed missiles on the island and they were authorized to respond if attacked. Ted Sorensen noted "The Joint Chiefs had assured Kennedy during the crisis that no nuclear warheads were in Cuba at the time....They were wrong." If Kennedy had listened to his military advisers', a large part of the USA, including Washington DC would be a smoking hole.

JFK said to Bobby at the height of the crisis "one thing about the brass' solution to every problem is there would be no one left to tell them they were wrong"


"And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem."
President John F. Kennedy
Click to expand...
Alright. I should have said he took the plans, mucked it up by excluding air support that was included in the plan and then sent in our troops under the misguided idea that what he had done would work. He ordered it, nobody else could have. Eisenhower didn't do it and never would have gone there without air support, and our weak response led the Soviets to believe that they could get away with it.

IMO this directly led to the missile crisis, Kennedy created his own crisis.
 
Damocles said:
Alright. I should have said he took the plans, mucked it up by excluding air support that was included in the plan and then sent in our troops under the misguided idea that what he had done would work. He ordered it, nobody else could have. Eisenhower didn't do it and never would have gone there without air support, and our weak response led the Soviets to believe that they could get away with it.

IMO this directly led to the missile crisis, Kennedy created his own crisis.
Click to expand...

I can go along with some of your premise...BUT we don't live in a vacuum.

IF President Kennedy HAD invaded Cuba in 1961, what do YOU think Russia's response would have been?
 
Bfgrn said:
I can go along with some of your premise...BUT we don't live in a vacuum.

IF President Kennedy HAD invaded Cuba in 1961, what do YOU think Russia's response would have been?
Click to expand...
If it had been successful? Very little, the Soviet Union knew that Cuba was in a precarious position. If it failed? To place missiles in Cuba.
 
Damocles said:
If it had been successful? Very little, the Soviet Union knew that Cuba was in a precarious position. If it failed? To place missiles in Cuba.
Click to expand...

Nothing...REALLY???

The Politburo would have paraded Khrushchev's nut around Red Square...

Get REAL...

Think..."enclave"
Think...overwhelming number of forces crushing US resistance
Think...we wouldn't even remember Ronny...
Think...
 
Bfgrn said:
Nothing...REALLY???

The Politburo would have paraded Khrushchev's nut around Red Square...

Get REAL...

Think..."enclave"
Think...overwhelming number of forces crushing US resistance
Think...we wouldn't even remember Ronny...
Think...
Click to expand...
This is speculation and supposition. The released KGB reports from the time stated that they believed that the US would and that Cuba would be lost. There were no such plans for a response.
 
I always get blamed!!

Bfgrn said:
Hi...
I too am a refugee from the AOL boards...Tom Prendergast, another AOL refugee sent me an e-mail to tell me about this board...

I'm an American liberal/libertarian ... My political views are in line with John F. Kennedy and some of Barry Goldwater's libertarian views...

BTW, those two men were good friends...

I'm an independent; I'm not affiliated with any party. I've voted for Republicans and Democrats, but I don't see myself voting Republican on the national level anytime soon. IMO, with proof if challenged, the GOP has been hijacked by far right theocrat Christians and far left neoconservative hawks that the Democrats jettisoned after Vietnam tore apart that party...



"We have all made mistakes. But Dante tells us that divine justice weighs the sins of the cold-blooded and the sins of the warm-hearted on different scales. Better the occasional faults of a party living in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a party frozen in the ice of its own indifference."
President John F. Kennedy
Click to expand...
 
Damocles said:
This is speculation. The released KGP reports from the time stated that they believed that the US would and that Cuba would be lost.

Think... period.
Click to expand...

And they accuse liberals of being pie in the sky dreamers...LOL

Berlin would have been toast... or should I say поджаривать
 
Bfgrn said:
And they accuse liberals of being pie in the sky dreamers...LOL

Berlin would have been toast... or should I say поджаривать
Click to expand...
Or should you say "to roast"? (I was a Russian Translator in the US Navy, a CT(I) if you want to look it up.)

Again, this is solely speculation on your part based only on what you want it to say. You can write a book about it, it would be fiction though.
 
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