Do you support the idea of going after wages to achieve true universal healthcare, and mandating that citizens buy into it?
Hillary is losing it - emotional rolercoaster
- Thread starter Chapdog
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Do you support the idea of going after wages to achieve true universal healthcare, and mandating that citizens buy into it?
They're already going after my wages to pay for my healthcare. I pay a premium every month out of my income. And a good portion of that premium is going to pay for advertising, CEO salaries, and overhead.
It would be better, and more cost effective, for the country if everyone paid a premium out of their wages.
And the poor, and those who can't afford it can be subsidized. It's simple and affordable. Nearly every developed country on the planet does it.
fair game..
shes either totally displaying false outrage. something i haven't seen obama do.
Or shes totally off her rocker.
take your pick either way obama comes out better
its a very distinct difference. Obamas plan is step in the direction and would make it to vote. hillarys play DOA.
Well, we disagree on that. My plan is voluntary; I don't have to have health insurance, but I'm glad my company provides it.
Regardless, that's Hillary's plan, and that's pretty much what Obama is saying about it. Her reaction is nothing more than false outrage.
As for which is more feasible, I'm not sure many people remember '93 & '94. Hillary's attempt was a complete, utter debacle. If there is any way to spin that individuals will be 'forced' to do anything, or that the gov't will "go after their wages," McCain & the GOP will have a feast this campaign season. It plays to their base like few other issues.
There is no way to shove a plan like this down the country's throat; I'm hugely skeptical that either candidate will ever get anything close to universal healthcare, but it's important to at least make incremental progress on this issue. Hillary got slammed down on this before, and she's showing that she didn't learn a damned thing.
evince
Truthmatters
The problem with all of this is that Obama can get elected and I dont think Hillary can for sure. The American public is primed and ready for Big changes in health care. If we dont elect a Democrat then the Republicans will stall it with all they have and nothing will get done.
Supporting Hillary is a losing game no matter what her platform is.
Supporting Hillary is a losing game no matter what her platform is.
Yep, the American people are ready for big changes on health care.
Obama isn't going to give us those.
I'm not going to pretend that Obama is good on health care just so everyone can feel good. He sucks on it. He had the worst plan of any Democrat. He also recently surpassed Hillary in donations from the insurance and big pharma industries, I believe. There's probably a connection there somewhere.
But he can beat McCain in a landslide and he's better than Hillary on the war issues.
I just don't understand why we have to pretend he doesn't suck on some issues. Cause he does. Ok?
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FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
If the rich choose not to pay into the system, there's only one group of people it can hurt. I can see their point of view.
Epicurus
Reasonable
I just think it's funny they don't connect the dots.
Hillary wants to garnish your wages to pay for universal healthcare and she's down in the polls for some reason.
Obama is opposed to that, and even willing to criticize Hillary for it, and he's up in the polls for some reason.
Hillary wants to garnish your wages to pay for universal healthcare and she's down in the polls for some reason.
Obama is opposed to that, and even willing to criticize Hillary for it, and he's up in the polls for some reason.
Well,that's what's known as a "tax". I'm not sure where the word "garnish" came from? I haven't followed the infighting between obama and hillary as close as many have. I'm pretty disgusted by it.
However, as I've written, if you look into this, most who support universal health care say it can't be done without mandates. In fact, Obama has mandates in his plan - but only for children. So children, under Obama's plan, will come close to universal coverage. The rest of us will not come close to it.
So the debate is; do you want universal or do you not? Now if you don't, that's ok... but you don't get to call it universal health care. And as a Democrat, you shouldn't be attacking the health care plans of other democrats, from the right.
I noticed no shortage of outrage when Hillary has attacked obama from the right - which she has done on so-called national security issues. Yet, when obama does it, the blinders go on.
I just want to be clear. I'm voting for obama, but he's a politician to me. Not one of the Beattles. And he's wrong on this, in the opinion of MOST progressives, including, progressive economists and health care experts.
I hope it's ok to say so?
Nah, if you go by polls, the majority of americans are ready for single payer. Medicare for all.
Their standing in the polls has nothing to do with this issue. Much of it personality, some of it is just that people are tired of old shit. They want a clean sweep. A clinton doesn't represent that. Obama does.
Obama might end up to be more than he appears. LBJ ended up putting his political capital behind civil rights, but for his whole career he played up to the southern segregationists. Later, he was called "the biggest turncoat in history" by Richard Russell for that. But decades later, when historians studied his life, they were able to find indications, from his earlier life, that LBJ had an ear and a heart for miniorities and the poor and the downtrodden his whole life, but hid it until he obtained that kind of power. It's an interesting story.
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If you look at Obama's life, and his wife's (and I think she's important, because who you marry usually indicates something about your beliefs), he has shown an affinity for public service and for the poor.
I'm interested to see what OBama does with the power of the Presidency. It might be more than what is now indicated. There's always "hope", isn't there?
When you get a job after college, your wages will be garnished for healthcare, even in the current system. They take the premiums out of your check.
Obviously, you could opt out of it now and not get healthcare. But, when if you end up getting injured or sick and are stuck with an $80k hospital bill you can't pay, it's everyone else that ends up paying for you. It's an unfair system. And it's immoral. And it's more expensive than universal healthcare.
evince
Truthmatters
Yep, the American people are ready for big changes on health care.
Obama isn't going to give us those.
I'm not going to pretend that Obama is good on health care just so everyone can feel good. He sucks on it. He had the worst plan of any Democrat. He also recently surpassed Hillary in donations from the insurance and big pharma industries, I believe. There's probably a connection there somewhere.
But he can beat McCain in a landslide and he's better than Hillary on the war issues.
I just don't understand why we have to pretend he doesn't suck on some issues. Cause he does. Ok?
Your right Darla we dont have to pretend its the best plan ever but we do need to keep in mind that the plan he is talking about is just a plan and what truely gets implemented will not be his exact plan. The congress will have to go over all the particulars and will have their say (that will include Clinton) and the plan that truely gets implemented will be different. Its just the groundwork and I think Obama will be very willing to work with the congress to make a truely workable plan.
Well, I strongly disagree with 1, and don't feel I'm qualified to state for certain on 2. But people who are qualified, seem to indicate differently.
That's true, but I just think that with all of the money interests who are going to be applying unimaginable pressure to this in Congress...we should start out as left as we can, as Universal as we can, because we are going to have to compromise too. So why start out to the right, and then compromise from there? What are you going to end up with then? Probably another pill bill, if you ask me. I"m pretty unhappy about the whole thing. But we'll see how it plays out. Maybe I'm going to happily surprised. I hope so.
evince
Truthmatters
Its really funny how they just keep ignoring that the current system we have is the most expensive system in the world. They pretend as if what we individually pay for any new system will be money on Top of what we pay now.
They ignore the savings ohter countries always see on preventative care. Im so tired of the real facts never permeating their brain cases.
Epicurus
Reasonable
I will say this: For what the progressive policy-makers and economists are trying to accomplish, mandates would be necessary.
To create a competitive, comprehensive government healthcare plan that the lower income citizens could be covered by if they were unable to afford private insurance, I really don't think mandates would be necessary.
But the distinction really lies in the details. Obama's plan offers an optional way for the poor to afford health insurance, while Hillary's seems to requires that everyone have healthcare even if it it requires garnished wages to pay for it.
evince
Truthmatters
The motivation in the American public is there for unuversal healthcare. There will very likely be MORE dems in congress after this election. Obama is just trying to be a little right of Hillary and its working to bring in all kinds of independents an even Rs. Democratic president + bigger progressive majority adds up to not having to compromise with the people who refuse to smell the coffee on this issue. You have just been dowm for so long you forgeot what up feels like. Take heart my Girlfriend its morning in America again and I dont mean the Ronny type mourning in America.
Yes we can.