I think deregulation and self regulation work

froggie said:
Absolutely, hemp farmers, poppy farmers, peyote farms, just think of the the things you can think! :cig: :hide:
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Hmm, yes and grave diggers for thos who were not too good at inspecting their own food. Or could not afford medical care.

I could get my own "Bring Out Your Dead" wagon..hmmm
 
Libertarianism is an idealistic concept that will never work with human beings.
Well nevwer is a long time, if wehumans keep progressing at our current rate it might work in about 42 million years.
 
I see no one took a stab at my suggestion that the left plays the same kind of fearmongering with your economic survival as the neo-conservatives do with your actual survival.

The message appears to be "Vote for me or you're not gonna make it!"

Of course, it's all in the name of stifling dissent, conslidating power and making wrong-headed proposals easier to push through without serious consideration.

Serious consideration is something that seems lacking in this discussion. I swear, and I certainly don't mean it in a rude fashion, but sometimes I think I've covered more ground here in a little over 200 spread around posts than some have after thousands and thousands. And I think that's particularly because of this fact of people calling their opponents dangerous absolutists, regardless of the facts, and then practicing the very form of absolutism with their own policy objectives, even when they say on the other hand that it's bad for society.
 
Adam Weinberg said:
I see no one took a stab at my suggestion that the left plays the same kind of fearmongering with your economic survival as the neo-conservatives do with your actual survival.

The message appears to be "Vote for me or you're not gonna make it!"

Of course, it's all in the name of stifling dissent, conslidating power and making wrong-headed proposals easier to push through without serious consideration.

Serious consideration is something that seems lacking in this discussion. I swear, and I certainly don't mean it in a rude fashion, but sometimes I think I've covered more ground here in a little over 200 spread around posts than some have after thousands and thousands. And I think that's particularly because of this fact of people calling their opponents dangerous absolutists, regardless of the facts, and then practicing the very form of absolutism with their own policy objectives, even when they say on the other hand that it's bad for society.
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Adam. Libertarianism is an idiotic myopic worlview. Evil comes in corporate terms or government terms. CEO's, Party Members. No difference.
 
uscitizen said:
Libertarianism is an idealistic concept that will never work with human beings.
Well nevwer is a long time, if wehumans keep progressing at our current rate it might work in about 42 million years.
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Exactly, it is just like asking Congress to regulate themselves, oh wait, they do.
And what a mess they have made of that once fine branch of our government.

Maybe, with the progression of science we can eliminate those traits which make self regulation impossible, like greed and lust, competition, sex, just to name a few!
 
AssHatZombie said:
Adam. Libertarianism is an idiotic myopic worlview. Evil comes in corporate terms or government terms. CEO's, Party Members. No difference.
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I am not an advocate of any form of ideologically pure libertarianism. I am simply defending the principles and traditions of liberty in a political culture that is constantly trending toward more and more government over the very basic affairs of people.

These attacks on a political platform that does not exist--whether it is a corrupted characterization of libertarian ideas, or liberal ideas or conservative ideas-- are giving rise to new, real and dangerous political programs that feed off of the spread of fear and insecurity and a popular trend away from reason. We are seeing more government in all affairs and less efficacy for private society. We are seeing a larger state, regardless of our true need for it, or for the impact on the liberty of the people, and this is all coming to pass because government no longer knows its limits and people aren't willing to hold the state to account for anything, for fear it won't save them from all their ails and enforce all their prejudices.

And this problem includes too the rise of corporate entities using unlimited government as a proxy.
 
Adam Weinberg said:
I am not an advocate of any form of ideologically pure libertarianism. I am simply defending the principles and traditions of liberty in a political culture that is constantly trending toward more and more government over the very basic affairs of people.

These attacks on a political platform that does not exist--whether it is a corrupted characterization of libertarian ideas, or liberal ideas or conservative ideas-- are giving rise to new, real and dangerous political programs that feed off of the spread of fear and insecurity and a popular trend away from reason. We are seeing more government in all affairs and less efficacy for private society. We are seeing a larger state, regardless of our true need for it, or for the impact on the liberty of the people, and this is all coming to pass because government no longer knows its limits and people aren't willing to hold the state to account for anything, for fear it won't save them from all their ails and enforce all their prejudices.

And this problem includes too the rise of corporate entities using unlimited government as a proxy.
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I agree with you about being involved in our personal lives too waaaay too much. Apathy or they are just too damn tired from working has allowed the government, the schools to take over as parents in many cases. We are slowly losing our rights in many areas and yet, the public continues to vote against their own best interests. I find it very frustrating.

It was good to have Ron Paul in the debates in many ways, he made people think. Something that the schools aren't letting kids do anymore with the NCLB nonsense. I have a book on my shelf that I am slowly wading through and it is called, "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America, by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt. It is interesting, and I agree with her what is taking place, but I disagree who is doing it. She thinks it is a liberal movement, while I see it as being non-partisan and about "class"
 
Even from a strategic standpoint, if my goal should be to elect Republicans instead of Democrats, I try not to think of "the enemy" as liberal or neo-conservative (though they are certainly a target of my wrath).

I am inclined to believe it is a collective, almost cultural issue about the political choices we make that put us into a certain condition. We're not robots or "sheep", and the place we end up isn't because of one dominant theme or another. We certainly didn't end up with more government because Americans LIKE big government. They simply have permitted it because of the wide variety of interests they are attempting to fulfill.

I would like to see a future where freedom-loving people (and my hope would be that everyone aspires to that) can broker a more vigilantly protected, more equitable social contract that satisfies both those of us who want limited government that secures the right of the minority and private society and those who want to use government to cure what ails our society in the majority.

It will always be a balancing act, but I think we need two (or more) limited government parties that disagree on the details and administration than two unlimited government parties at each other's throat about the impending apocalypse a mere change in government would bring.

We have to draw the line and the line shouldn't move for light reasons, or nobody's liberty is secured. That's why I think having a Constitution that means something is so important.
 
This could be a first for me. AHZ and Adam make good points (if I may say so - I have to add that disclaimer because I always feel like a pompous prick when I write that - it could be why I don't do it very often).

I wonder if it's possible to actually agree that the status quo is pretty well stuffed and look to another way (please, no Blairite Third Way jibes, he's history).
 
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