If LBJ wasn't such a liar, would he be rated one of the best presidents ever?

C

Cypress

Well-known member
LBJ deserved to be driven from office for his lies about Vietnam. The dude had a lot of blood on his hands.

But, check it out: I was reviewing the domestic accomplishements of the LBJ adminstration. Astonishing. As influential, if not moreso, than FDR. From civil rights, to voting rights, to environmental protection, to consumer safety laws, to medicare, to medicaid, to public broadcasting, to pre-school Head Start programs, to student loans and grants for college. In six years, the dude accomplished as much, or more, than FDR and Teddy Roosevelt combined.
 
Yeah, I am already on this bandwagon.

Vietnam was his fatal flaw, and it was a tragedy for this country in ways that can never be measured. Never.
 
LBJ was a scumbag.

A lying cheating hunk of shit.

He did Some good things but I dont even think they were what he wanted to do he just tried to fullfill some of the Kennedy legacy to get re elected.
 
Desh, I agree he was a lying sack of crap, on vietnam. He had a lot of blood on his hands.

But, if you ever took out a low-interest college loan; if you go through you day (rightly) assuming your drinking water is clean; and if you get in a car or airplane with the assumption that it's been inspected for safety; and if you have ever assumed that the impoverished single mom living next door is able to get state healthcare for her kid - those are things that came out of the johnson adminstration.
 
Cypress said:
LBJ deserved to be driven from office for his lies about Vietnam. The dude had a lot of blood on his hands.

But, check it out: I was reviewing the domestic accomplishements of the LBJ adminstration. Astonishing. As influential, if not moreso, than FDR. From civil rights, to voting rights, to environmental protection, to consumer safety laws, to medicare, to medicaid, to public broadcasting, to pre-school Head Start programs, to student loans and grants for college. In six years, the dude accomplished as much, or more, than FDR and Teddy Roosevelt combined.
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LBJ wasn't even the President--- Not really, LADYBIRD was.
 
Cypress said:
Desh, I agree he was a lying sack of crap, on vietnam. He had a lot of blood on his hands.

But, if you ever took out a low-interest college loan; if you go through you day (rightly) assuming your drinking water is clean; and if you get in a car or airplane with the assumption that it's been inspected for safety; and if you have ever assumed that the impoverished single mom living next door is able to get state healthcare for her kid - those are things that came out of the johnson adminstration.
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Like I said I Im not convenced they were his ideas of what should happen, I think he used JFKs playbook and tried to fullfill some of it for relecetion.
 
Desh said:
Like I said I Im not convenced they were his ideas of what should happen, I think he used JFKs playbook and tried to fullfill some of it for relecetion.
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Nooo, nothing could be further from the truth. He was far more liberal than JFK.
 
Kennedy couldn't get most of his domestic agenda passed.

yeah, its probably true JFK and LBJ shared many of the same domestic goals. They're Democrats, after all.

But, did LBJ simply carry on JFK's legacy, as a courtesy to JFK - never really believing in the agenda himself? Sorry, that's laughable.

LBJ doesn't stike me as a mild-mannered man, who didn't have his own thoughts and agenda. A man who meekly devoted his own presidential term to courteously carring out JFK's agenda, but never really believing in it himself.

I think LBJ totally believed, and was committed to this agenda. And here's the fact: LBJ got it passed - most of in in about three or four short years. JFK didn't get much of his agenda passed.
 
Desh said:
Like I said I Im not convenced they were his ideas of what should happen, I think he used JFKs playbook and tried to fullfill some of it for relecetion.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The one good thing Johnson did was his work on cival rights. he pushed hard for cival rights, even when Kennedy was alive. His efforts did not cease throughout his Presidency.

The rest of his "great society" crap, stole power from the states, sparked inflation, was incredibly short sighted, led to his desire to increase taxes to cover the ever growing deficit spending of his great society programs. Add in the atrocity that was his handling of Viet Nam and he is easily the worst President of the second half of the 1900's. (depsite Carters brave attempt to take the title from him)
 
Desh said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy#Domestic_policy
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When were the civil and voting rights acts passed Desh? Who was President? Why weren't they passed two years earlier?

I know that many liberals worship JFK, for the life of me I will never know why. But it's fine to do that.
\
However, you should read about LBJ and his entire life before you make judgements on who and what he was.

To even propose that he takes a back seat to JFK on civil rights, well, that is absurd.
 
Cypress said:
Kennedy couldn't get most of his domestic agenda passed.

yeah, its probably true JFK and LBJ shared many of the same domestic goals. They're Democrats, after all.

But, did LBJ simply carry on JFK's legacy, as a courtesy to JFK - never really believing in the agenda himself? Sorry, that's laughable.

LBJ doesn't stike me as a mild-mannered man, who didn't have his own thoughts and agenda. A man who meekly devoted his own presidential term to courteously carring out JFK's agenda, but never really believing in it himself.

I think LBJ totally believed, and was committed to this agenda. And here's the fact: LBJ got it passed - most of in in about three or four short years. JFK didn't get much of his agenda passed.
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I agree with the above 100%. LBJ was a strong willed individual. After the way Kennedy essentially neutered LBJ as VP... if anything he would have been inclined to do little to continue Kennedy's plans. Unless of course they were plans that LBJ also truly believed in.
 
Superfreak said:
I disagree. The one good thing Johnson did was his work on cival rights. he pushed hard for cival rights, even when Kennedy was alive. His efforts did not cease throughout his Presidency.

The rest of his "great society" crap, stole power from the states, sparked inflation, was incredibly short sighted, led to his desire to increase taxes to cover the ever growing deficit spending of his great society programs. Add in the atrocity that was his handling of Viet Nam and he is easily the worst President of the second half of the 1900's. (depsite Carters brave attempt to take the title from him)
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There's not a republican governor in this country that will publically admit to wanting to eliminate medicare, medicaid, consumer protection laws, environmental laws, and college student loans - all part of LBJs legacy. These are so popular, you won't find a single major republican office holder proposing to eliminate them.

I bet you that all republican governors in this nation actively and happily manage and implement their state medicaid and college loan programs.
 
Darla said:
When were the civil and voting rights acts passed Desh? Who was President? Why weren't they passed two years earlier?

I know that many liberals worship JFK, for the life of me I will never know why. But it's fine to do that.
\
However, you should read about LBJ and his entire life before you make judgements on who and what he was.

To even propose that he takes a back seat to JFK on civil rights, well, that is absurd.
Click to expand...

I believe that was 1964.

Liberals worship JFK because he was a womanizing celebrity oriented President... and liberals really are that shallow. ;)
 
Cypress said:
Kennedy couldn't get most of his domestic agenda passed.

yeah, its probably true JFK and LBJ shared many of the same domestic goals. They're Democrats, after all.

But, did LBJ simply carry on JFK's legacy, as a courtesy to JFK - never really believing in the agenda himself? Sorry, that's laughable.

LBJ doesn't stike me as a mild-mannered man, who didn't have his own thoughts and agenda. A man who meekly devoted his own presidential term to courteously carring out JFK's agenda, but never really believing in it himself.

I think LBJ totally believed, and was committed to this agenda. And here's the fact: LBJ got it passed - most of in in about three or four short years. JFK didn't get much of his agenda passed.
Click to expand...


Liberals have had this compulsion to turn JFK into some sort of liberal God. With scant evidence, they have determined it to be fact that had JFK lived, we would not have had Vietnam. completely ignoring the fact that LBJ kept on all of JFK's senior advisors, who were all hawks, as was JFK.

Meanwhile, they completely ignore what LBJ did, with his heart and soul, for civil rights, and act as if JFK would have done the same had he but lived. Again, completely ignoring that when he was alive, he did not pass a civil rights bill.

I mean honestly, it's as confusing to me as the right's glorification of that marginally smarter than a vegetable President, Ronald Reagan.
 
Superfreak said:
I believe that was 1964.

Liberals worship JFK because he was a womanizing celebrity oriented President... and liberals really are that shallow. ;)
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ha ha. I think it is more that we look for heros, and whom better to deify than someone who could not live to disappoint you?

I remember once reading that Elizabeth Taylor swore that if only one of her early husbands hadn't died in a plane crash (I think it was Mike Todd), she would have stayed married to him for the rest of her life, he was the love of her life.

You know what I think? I think he didn't live long enough for her to divorce him. People like to live in a fantasy world.
 
"I mean honestly, it's as confusing to me as the right's glorification of that marginally smarter than a vegetable President, Ronald Reagan."

Give me a break. That is like someone on the right saying that Clinton was intellectually challenged. Simply rhetoric.
 
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