If LBJ wasn't such a liar, would he be rated one of the best presidents ever?

Darla said:
Liberals have had this compulsion to turn JFK into some sort of liberal God. With scant evidence, they have determined it to be fact that had JFK lived, we would not have had Vietnam. completely ignoring the fact that LBJ kept on all of JFK's senior advisors, who were all hawks, as was JFK.

Meanwhile, they completely ignore what LBJ did, with his heart and soul, for civil rights, and act as if JFK would have done the same had he but lived. Again, completely ignoring that when he was alive, he did not pass a civil rights bill.

I mean honestly, it's as confusing to me as the right's glorification of that marginally smarter than a vegetable President, Ronald Reagan.
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LOL

I think this is spot on.

Look, I don't hate JFK. But, he really wasn't in office that long, and had trouble getting his agenda enacted. I think his assasination sort of mythologized him.

I think LBJ's influence is so profound, so ubiquitous, that sometimes we aren't even aware of it. I mean, these days we simply take things like consumer safety laws, medicare, student loans, voting rights, and environmental protection for granted. I guess a lot of us assume it was just always like that.
 
Superfreak said:
"I mean honestly, it's as confusing to me as the right's glorification of that marginally smarter than a vegetable President, Ronald Reagan."

Give me a break. That is like someone on the right saying that Clinton was intellectually challenged. Simply rhetoric.
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Because Ronald Reagan was Bill Clinton's intellectual equal, right?

Now that, makes me laugh.
 
Cypress said:
I think this is spot on.

Look, I don't hate JFK. But, he really wasn't in office that long, and had trouble getting his agenda enacted. I think his assasination sort of mythologized him.

I think LBJ's influence is so profound, so ubiquitous, that sometimes we aren't even aware of it. I mean, these days we simply take things like consumer safety laws, medicare, student loans, voting rights, and environmental protection for granted. I guess a lot of us assume it was just always like that.
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I think that if there had not been Vietnam, LBJ would be considered FDR's equal, and I also think, we might very well have had universal health care in his second elected term.

That's why I believe we'll never know the true cost of Vietnam.
 
"Because Ronald Reagan was Bill Clinton's intellectual equal, right?"

Not saying that at all... no way could Clinton match Reagan. Clinton had what to deal with during his Presidency? NADA. No real challenges. No tests of his leadership. Economy was rolling. Cold war had ended. What did he do that could make you think he was anywhere near Reagan?

What is it that Reagan did, that makes you believe he wasn't intelligent? Please, tell me about the alzheimers.... because while that certainly may have affected Reagan at the end, there is no way you can compare Clinton to Reagan in terms of leadership or intellect during Reagans first 5-6 years.
 
By the way Cypress... the social security act is what caused social security to be in the mess it is today. It was the first time the SS fund was raided to pay for other social programs.

Again, to be clear, not saying that the concept of medicaid and medicare were bad... but the manner in which they were created was horrible.
 
Tell us oh wise Desh... just how is it Reagan was a prop? and since you believe he was a prop... please tell us who was pulling his strings....
 
Think about it , the cowboy boots ,the brush clearing ,the horse riding and the guy you want to have a beer with bullshit.

Give me a well educated thinking person instead of a pretend cowboy.
 
Darla said:
I think that if there had not been Vietnam, LBJ would be considered FDR's equal, and I also think, we might very well have had universal health care in his second elected term.

That's why I believe we'll never know the true cost of Vietnam.
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I think that if there had not been Vietnam, LBJ would be considered FDR's equal,

Totally agree. In fact, I think he might have been ranked historically a tad ahead of FDR. Leaving vietnam out of the equation, look how much he accomplished in 6 short years. Nothing short of astonishing, really.

His big mistake was trying to have guns and butter - vietnam and the new society. Oh, and he did lie his ass off about 'Nam. That was uncool, and doomed him.
 
Desh said:
Think about it , the cowboy boots ,the brush clearing ,the horse riding and the guy you want to have a beer with bullshit.

Give me a well educated thinking person instead of a pretend cowboy.
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So retard... because he had a ranch and loved to ride horses, suddenly that means he wasn't a good leader? doesn't possess intellect?
 
The Genius of Ronald Reagan: Direct Quotes from the Gipper Himself

"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." -- Ronald Reagan, 1981

"A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?" -- Ronald Reagan, 1966, opposing expansion of Redwood National Park as governor of California


"Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born. "

"I have flown twice over Mt St. Helens out on our west coast. I'm not a scientist and I don't know the figures, but I have a suspicion that that one little mountain has probably released more sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere of the world than has been released in the last ten years of automobile driving or things of that kind that people are so concerned about." -- Ronald Reagan, 1980. (Actually, Mount St. Helens, at its peak activity, emitted about 2,000 tons of sulfur dioxide per day, compared with 81,000 tons per day by cars.)

"Facts are stupid things." -- Ronald Reagan, 1988, a misquote of John Adams, "Facts are stubborn things."

"We think there is a parallel between federal involvement in education and the decline in profit over recent years." -- Ronald Reagan, 1983. (It's always good to run the Department of Education to make money.)

"Fascism was really the basis for the New Deal." Ronald Reagan, 1976, on his failed campaign for the Republican nomination. (Moron.)

"The best minds are not in government." -- Ronald Reagan. (Not in his government anyway.)

"You can't help those who simply will not be helped. One problem that we've had, even in the best of times, is people who are sleeping on the grates, the homeless who are homeless, you might say, by choice." -- President Reagan, 1/31/84, on Good Morning America, defending his administration against charges of callousness.

On 8/24/85 President Reagan tells an interviewer that the "reformist administration" of South African president P.W. Botha has made significant progress on the racial front. "They have eliminated the segregation that we once had in our own country," says the President, "the type of thing where hotels and restaurants and places of entertainment and so forth were segregated - that has all been eliminated." (In response to questions a few days later as to whether President Reagan actually thought racial segregation has been eliminated in South Africa, Larry Speakes said "Not totally, no.")

"The American Petroleum Institute filed suit against the EPA [and] charged that the agency was suppressing a scientific study for fear it might be misinterpreted... The suppressed study reveals that 80 percent of air pollution comes not from chimneys and auto exhaust pipes, but from plants and trees." Presidential candidate Ronald Reagan, in 1979. (There is no scientific data to support this assertion.)

"You know, if I listened to him long enough, I would be convinced that we're in an economic downturn, and that people are homeless, and people are going without food and medical attention, and that we've got to do something about the unemployed." -- President Reagan, 6/8/88, accusing Michael Dukakis of misleading campaign rhetoric.

"This fellow they've nominated claims he's the new Thomas Jefferson. Well let me tell you something; I knew Thomas Jefferson. He was a friend of mine and Governor... You're no Thomas Jefferson!" -- Ronald Reagan, 1992
 
"Give me a well educated thinking person instead of a pretend cowboy."

by the way retard.... Reagan had degrees in economics and sociology. Which is obviously far more of an education than you ever had.
 
Superfreak said:
"Because Ronald Reagan was Bill Clinton's intellectual equal, right?"

Not saying that at all... no way could Clinton match Reagan. Clinton had what to deal with during his Presidency? NADA. No real challenges. No tests of his leadership. Economy was rolling. Cold war had ended. What did he do that could make you think he was anywhere near Reagan?

What is it that Reagan did, that makes you believe he wasn't intelligent? Please, tell me about the alzheimers.... because while that certainly may have affected Reagan at the end, there is no way you can compare Clinton to Reagan in terms of leadership or intellect during Reagans first 5-6 years.
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Reagan was a misguided and misinformed cowboy caricature. Intellectually, he was completely subpar compared to other 20th century presidents.

But, I will give you this rare word of praise on him. Reagan could learn from his mistakes and adapt. That's what George Junior is totally incapable off.

When Reagan's 1981 tax cuts started creating a fiscal meltdown, reagan backtracked and at least attempted to restore fiscal sanity and balance. He was one of the biggest tax increasers in history, starting with teh 1983 tax hike, and continuing through the end of his term.

Also, Reagan was wise to go against the conservatives in his own party, to negotiate with Gorbachev and sign a decent nuclear reduction treaty. He saw that Gobry was a new kind of russian leader, while the cons in his own party were still stricken with the red scare.
 
President Ronald Reagan, complaining about Screen Actors' Guild president Ed Asner speaking out on U.S. foreign policy:
What does an actor know about politics?
 
I agree Reagan was smarter than GWB but Reagan was manipulated and if you doubt that go back and study Iran Contra.
 
Desh said:
The Genius of Ronald Reagan: Direct Quotes from the Gipper Himself

"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." -- Ronald Reagan, 1981

"A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?" -- Ronald Reagan, 1966, opposing expansion of Redwood National Park as governor of California


"Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born. "

"I have flown twice over Mt St. Helens out on our west coast. I'm not a scientist and I don't know the figures, but I have a suspicion that that one little mountain has probably released more sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere of the world than has been released in the last ten years of automobile driving or things of that kind that people are so concerned about." -- Ronald Reagan, 1980. (Actually, Mount St. Helens, at its peak activity, emitted about 2,000 tons of sulfur dioxide per day, compared with 81,000 tons per day by cars.)

"Facts are stupid things." -- Ronald Reagan, 1988, a misquote of John Adams, "Facts are stubborn things."

"We think there is a parallel between federal involvement in education and the decline in profit over recent years." -- Ronald Reagan, 1983. (It's always good to run the Department of Education to make money.)

"Fascism was really the basis for the New Deal." Ronald Reagan, 1976, on his failed campaign for the Republican nomination. (Moron.)

"The best minds are not in government." -- Ronald Reagan. (Not in his government anyway.)

"You can't help those who simply will not be helped. One problem that we've had, even in the best of times, is people who are sleeping on the grates, the homeless who are homeless, you might say, by choice." -- President Reagan, 1/31/84, on Good Morning America, defending his administration against charges of callousness.

On 8/24/85 President Reagan tells an interviewer that the "reformist administration" of South African president P.W. Botha has made significant progress on the racial front. "They have eliminated the segregation that we once had in our own country," says the President, "the type of thing where hotels and restaurants and places of entertainment and so forth were segregated - that has all been eliminated." (In response to questions a few days later as to whether President Reagan actually thought racial segregation has been eliminated in South Africa, Larry Speakes said "Not totally, no.")

"The American Petroleum Institute filed suit against the EPA [and] charged that the agency was suppressing a scientific study for fear it might be misinterpreted... The suppressed study reveals that 80 percent of air pollution comes not from chimneys and auto exhaust pipes, but from plants and trees." Presidential candidate Ronald Reagan, in 1979. (There is no scientific data to support this assertion.)

"You know, if I listened to him long enough, I would be convinced that we're in an economic downturn, and that people are homeless, and people are going without food and medical attention, and that we've got to do something about the unemployed." -- President Reagan, 6/8/88, accusing Michael Dukakis of misleading campaign rhetoric.

"This fellow they've nominated claims he's the new Thomas Jefferson. Well let me tell you something; I knew Thomas Jefferson. He was a friend of mine and Governor... You're no Thomas Jefferson!" -- Ronald Reagan, 1992
Click to expand...

LOL

Classic: "You know, if I listened to him long enough, I would be convinced that we're in an economic downturn, and that people are homeless, and people are going without food and medical attention, and that we've got to do something about the unemployed." -- President Reagan, 6/8/88, accusing Michael Dukakis of misleading campaign rhetoric.
 
Cypress said:
Reagan was a misguided and misinformed cowboy caricature. Intellectually, he was completely subpar compared to other 20th century presidents.

But, I will give you this rare word of praise on him. Reagan could learn from his mistakes and adapt. That's what George Junior is totally incapable off.

When Reagan's 1981 tax cuts started creating a fiscal meltdown, reagan backtracked and at least attempted to restore fiscal sanity and balance. He was one of the biggest tax increasers in history, starting with teh 1983 tax hike, and continuing through the end of his term.

Also, Reagan was wise to go against the conservatives in his own party, to negotiate with Gorbachev and sign a decent nuclear reduction treaty. He saw that Gobry was a new kind of russian leader, while the cons in his own party were still stricken with the red scare.
Click to expand...


Sean Wilentz has a piece on the editorial page of the NY Times today, about Iran-Contra and Dick Cheney. I did not know this before today, but he is working on a book about the Reagan Presidency and its aftermath. I cannot wait for that to come out.
 
I wish I could find the one about his lies.

There was this one where he quoted the Pope as agreeing with him on something and the next day the Pope came out and said he never talked to him or said what Reagan had quoted him as saying.

It was a blatent LIE!
 
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