If self is an illusion,how are we aware of ourselves?

Dutch Uncle said:
"I think, therefore I am" - René Descartes, 1637

The fact you think the thought is all the proof you need of your own existence.
Click to expand...

I understand. There is a school of thought where self is an illusion created by your own brain. Your self is not real.

If that is a fact, we wouldn't be aware of our selves.

Makes sense?
 
AProudLefty said:
I understand. There is a school of thought where self is an illusion created by your own brain. Your self is not real.

If that is a fact, we wouldn't be aware of our selves.

Makes sense?
Click to expand...

I think that thought is more about the illusion of whom a person is rather than whether they exist or not.

Notice how some people are puffed up?

Consider Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein. They thought they were something they were not...and they each paid a price for that "illusion"...delusion?

Same goes for Trump and Team Crazy.
 
AProudLefty said:
I understand. There is a school of thought where self is an illusion created by your own brain. Your self is not real.

If that is a fact, we wouldn't be aware of our selves.

Makes sense?
Click to expand...

Our smaller birds do not seem to be aware that the image in the mirror is of themselves, but the larger ones sure do. Is that an awareness of "self"?
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Our smaller birds do not seem to be aware that the image in the mirror is of themselves, but the larger ones sure do. Is that an awareness of "self"?
Click to expand...

A good question, although I think in terms of dogs, not parrots.

Although Buddhists would disagree, I see most animals as pure Zen; they are completely in the moment*. They don't reflect upon the past or plan for the future. They just do.

The Mirror Test is a test measuring a higher level of cognition. What that means in terms of self-awareness seems to be muddled.

https://qz.com/1501318/the-mirror-test-for-animals-reflects-the-limits-of-human-cognition/
The mirror test for animal self-awareness reflects the limits of human cognition
When you look in the mirror, you see yourself. That puts you in the company of animals like dolphins, elephants, chimpanzees, and magpies, all of whom have shown the ability to recognize their own reflections.

The mirror test is often used as a way of measuring whether animals possess self-awareness. But now that a species of fish—the cleaner wasse—has also spotted its reflection, some scientists are wondering if the mirror test says more about the way humans think than how, or if, animals experience their individual existence....

...But as Jordan tells Elizabeth Preston in Quanta, “I am the last to say that fish are as smart as chimpanzees. Or that the cleaner wrasse is equivalent to an 18-month-old baby. It’s not.” Instead, he believes that the measure scientists have used for nearly 50 years is flawed. “The mirror test is probably not testing for self-awareness,” he says.

One problem with this test, for example, is that it uses vision to measure consciousness. Yet not all animals (or all humans) rely on sight as the predominant sense. It may well be that a bat, for example, which depends on sonar to get around, is self-conscious, but that sighted humans just don’t know how to formulate a test to measure this because we’re visually oriented, as neuroscientist and professor of psychology at Emory University Gregory Berns argues in his book What It’s Like to Be a Dog.
Click to expand...




*https://www.soulfularogya.com/zen-reflections-eat-when-hungry/
A Zen master was once asked, “How do you practice Zen?”

The master replied,”When you’re hungry, eat; when you’re tired, sleep.”

“Isn’t that what everyone does?”

The master replied, “Not at all. Most people entertain a thousand desires when they eat and scheme over a thousand plans when they sleep.”
Click to expand...
 
Cypress said:
We don't know how a self aware, self reflecting conciousness emerges out of the chemistry and cellular biology of the mind. It's a question that is currently beyond the reach of science.
Click to expand...

...and not likely to occur in AI computer sciences anytime soon. :)
 
BidenPresident said:
I do not think the self is an illusion. Yet, I do not think consciousness proves there is a self.
Click to expand...

Well, one cannot exist without the other, can it? For example, before I respond to your posts I must "consciously" think of my response for you before I post it. So...
 
AProudLefty said:
I understand. There is a school of thought where self is an illusion created by your own brain. Your self is not real.

If that is a fact, we wouldn't be aware of our selves.

Makes sense?
Click to expand...

No. By virtue of the fact I have a brain, my brain is part of myself. One cannot be without the other, but when both are there, both are present.

Make sense?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top