interesting study on US middle class

a big part of being middle class is where you live. $150k/yr in S.F. may make you middle class while $40k in some other town can make you middle class for that area. So yes there will be a wide delta in income betweens those who believe themselves to be middle class.

They reference minorities. Well if one is an immigrant minority for example who came from nothing in their home country to make a little money here might consider themselves middle class because they live so much better than they did in their home country while many Americans might say they aren't middle class.
 
Most middle class adults agree with the old saw that the Republican Party favors the rich while the Democratic Party favors the middle class and the poor.

Nearly six-in-ten (58%) middle-class survey respondents say the Republican Party favors the rich, while nearly two-thirds say the Democratic Party favors the middle class (39%) or the poor (26%).
 
cawacko said:
a big part of being middle class is where you live. $150k/yr in S.F. may make you middle class while $40k in some other town can make you middle class for that area. So yes there will be a wide delta in income betweens those who believe themselves to be middle class.

They reference minorities. Well if one is an immigrant minority for example who came from nothing in their home country to make a little money here might consider themselves middle class because they live so much better than they did in their home country while many Americans might say they aren't middle class.
Click to expand...

Yep, it's like the definition of poor. Poor doesn't seem to me to include living in a home you own. Nor would one think it includes air conditioning, multiple televisions, dishwasher, computers, cable, etc. But even the PEW study shows that trend.

I'm unsure how they come up with the idea that the poor and middle class, by whatever definition are in such sad shape?
 
Kathianne said:
Yep, it's like the definition of poor. Poor doesn't seem to me to include living in a home you own. Nor would one think it includes air conditioning, multiple televisions, dishwasher, computers, cable, etc. But even the PEW study shows that trend.

I'm unsure how they come up with the idea that the poor and middle class, by whatever definition are in such sad shape?
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This shit again? Fucking zombie talking points never die.
 
Its income.

You can be given TV or even buy them cheap at a thrift store.

Its about how much you have coming in and how many people you have to care for on it.
 
Desh said:
Its income.

You can be given TV or even buy them cheap at a thrift store.

Its about how much you have coming in and how many people you have to care for on it.
Click to expand...

Wow, who knew the 'poor' had so many to give them stuff? Or that they were such great shoppers?

Desh, do you read the links you post?
 
Kathianne said:
Wow, who knew the 'poor' had so many to give them stuff? Or that they were such great shoppers?

Desh, do you read the links you post?
Click to expand...


I was poor a great deal of my life.

My house is still full of the furniture I bought at junk stores and yard sales. Having a TV is does not qualify you as rich.

Status is determined by how much you make. Two words "Middle class" they mena just what they sound like. Those in the middle bracket.
 
Desh said:
Its income.

You can be given TV or even buy them cheap at a thrift store.

Its about how much you have coming in and how many people you have to care for on it.
Click to expand...

Its income ???

I don't think so....from the article, its seems to be 'perception'....not income

"But within this self-defined middle class, there are notable economic and demographic differences. For example, four-in-ten Americans with incomes below $20,000 say they are middle class, as do a third of those with incomes above $150,000."

I can understand someone at 150k thinking they are middle class...but not someone below 20k, anywhere thinking they are....but it seems they do...
So I conclude its how we perceive ourselves in the scheme of things...

Because we know for a fact that the economy has been doing just fine for the past 7 years in spite of a couple of blips like the housing market that only affected a small group of people....<5% unemployment is fabulous...and thats also in spite of 15 to 20 illegals taking jobs in the US at the same time...etc....
 
Bravo my poor little brain cell chanllenged friend, that was a question asked about where they feel they are in society.It was not asked to determine their actual status but their perception of there status.

Middle Class is determined by a middle ranking income.
 
Desh said:
I was poor a great deal of my life.

My house is still full of the furniture I bought at junk stores and yard sales. Having a TV is does not qualify you as rich.

Status is determined by how much you make. Two words "Middle class" they mena just what they sound like. Those in the middle bracket.
Click to expand...

Me too, being poor I mean. See I knew I wasn't middle class, even with 3 degrees. I was making 21k, with 18k in child support. I had three children under the age of 13. I was working a full time and 2 part time jobs, nearly 85 hours per week. I was fortunate and knew it that i had 'stuff' from my folks and from my marriage. It wasn't however clothes or shoes for growing children. It wasn't the costs of text books and such for 'free public schools'.

You think I'm heartless and not empathetic, you are so wrong. I have empathy and I give from my little. Here's the difference, I don't think the government has the answers at best, nor the poor's interests at heart at worst. I think politicians use the poor, immigrants, disenfranchised for their own ends, regardless of the party in power. I don't think it's the job of the government. I think it's the job of the people. All of us should care for our neighbors and we do for the most part.

I'm just coming from a different place than you. My experiences do not lead me to the same conclusions, I'm unsure why. Perhaps it was growing up in an upper middle class area. Perhaps it was my education and some professors that said things that didn't ring true and those that said things that did. In either case, I had the ability to search a bit deeper to find out why I should or shouldn't agree with them. I had the ability to argue with them. It clarified my thinking.

Bottom line, I think most of us can rise beyond our lower points. Some will have no problems, some major. There are areas of discrimination rife throughout the spectrum, yet I think we can get by them. It takes determination and the goodwill of good people, of which there are plenty. To me the government is more of a hinderence than a help in most cases.
 
Desh said:
Bravo my poor little brain cell chanllenged friend, that was a question asked about where they feel they are in society.It was not asked to determine their actual status but their perception of there status.

Middle Class is determined by a middle ranking income.
Click to expand...

It's more than just a middle ranking income. There are many factors involved headed by where you live.
 
Kathianne said:
Me too, being poor I mean. See I knew I wasn't middle class, even with 3 degrees. I was making 21k, with 18k in child support. I had three children under the age of 13. I was working a full time and 2 part time jobs, nearly 85 hours per week. I was fortunate and knew it that i had 'stuff' from my folks and from my marriage. It wasn't however clothes or shoes for growing children. It wasn't the costs of text books and such for 'free public schools'.

You think I'm heartless and not empathetic, you are so wrong. I have empathy and I give from my little. Here's the difference, I don't think the government has the answers at best, nor the poor's interests at heart at worst. I think politicians use the poor, immigrants, disenfranchised for their own ends, regardless of the party in power. I don't think it's the job of the government. I think it's the job of the people. All of us should care for our neighbors and we do for the most part.

I'm just coming from a different place than you. My experiences do not lead me to the same conclusions, I'm unsure why. Perhaps it was growing up in an upper middle class area. Perhaps it was my education and some professors that said things that didn't ring true and those that said things that did. In either case, I had the ability to search a bit deeper to find out why I should or shouldn't agree with them. I had the ability to argue with them. It clarified my thinking.

Bottom line, I think most of us can rise beyond our lower points. Some will have no problems, some major. There are areas of discrimination rife throughout the spectrum, yet I think we can get by them. It takes determination and the goodwill of good people, of which there are plenty. To me the government is more of a hinderence than a help in most cases.
Click to expand...

Well said, Kathianne.

I also wonder why more people do not resent the government for saying "we can fix your life" when its obvious that it cannot even fix its own workings.

I do not see more government as an answer, unless the question is "What is the enemy of more freedom?"


Also, many studies that look at income to determine where people fit in society, only look at wage type of income. In other words, if I had $500,000 and decided to take a year off and work on a novel, by some standards I would be considered poor. I have zero income, therefore I am poor.
 
cawacko said:
a big part of being middle class is where you live. $150k/yr in S.F. may make you middle class while $40k in some other town can make you middle class for that area. So yes there will be a wide delta in income betweens those who believe themselves to be middle class.

They reference minorities. Well if one is an immigrant minority for example who came from nothing in their home country to make a little money here might consider themselves middle class because they live so much better than they did in their home country while many Americans might say they aren't middle class.
Click to expand...

Cawacko, you can't honestly believe that the standard of living is equal between someone with 40k in Mississippi and someone with 150k a year in SF. At most, it would be 80k to be equal. Standard of living doesn't go beyond 100% generally, a you're shooting up above 200%.
 
Kathianne said:
Me too, being poor I mean. See I knew I wasn't middle class, even with 3 degrees. I was making 21k, with 18k in child support. I had three children under the age of 13. I was working a full time and 2 part time jobs, nearly 85 hours per week. I was fortunate and knew it that i had 'stuff' from my folks and from my marriage. It wasn't however clothes or shoes for growing children. It wasn't the costs of text books and such for 'free public schools'.

You think I'm heartless and not empathetic, you are so wrong. I have empathy and I give from my little. Here's the difference, I don't think the government has the answers at best, nor the poor's interests at heart at worst. I think politicians use the poor, immigrants, disenfranchised for their own ends, regardless of the party in power. I don't think it's the job of the government. I think it's the job of the people. All of us should care for our neighbors and we do for the most part.

I'm just coming from a different place than you. My experiences do not lead me to the same conclusions, I'm unsure why. Perhaps it was growing up in an upper middle class area. Perhaps it was my education and some professors that said things that didn't ring true and those that said things that did. In either case, I had the ability to search a bit deeper to find out why I should or shouldn't agree with them. I had the ability to argue with them. It clarified my thinking.

Bottom line, I think most of us can rise beyond our lower points. Some will have no problems, some major. There are areas of discrimination rife throughout the spectrum, yet I think we can get by them. It takes determination and the goodwill of good people, of which there are plenty. To me the government is more of a hinderence than a help in most cases.
Click to expand...

That's it.

The reason so many Americans associate with the upper 1% instead of themselves is that they all believe they'll inevitably win the lottery and be up there.
 
Solitary said:
Well said, Kathianne.

I also wonder why more people do not resent the government for saying "we can fix your life" when its obvious that it cannot even fix its own workings.

I do not see more government as an answer, unless the question is "What is the enemy of more freedom?"


Also, many studies that look at income to determine where people fit in society, only look at wage type of income. In other words, if I had $500,000 and decided to take a year off and work on a novel, by some standards I would be considered poor. I have zero income, therefore I am poor.
Click to expand...

That's a nitpick if I've ever heard one. If the segment of the population who just happened to make a million dollars and took off a year to write a novel were very large they'd probably take it into account.

Hint: it's not.
 
Watermark said:
Cawacko, you can't honestly believe that the standard of living is equal between someone with 40k in Mississippi and someone with 150k a year in SF. At most, it would be 80k to be equal. Standard of living doesn't go beyond 100% generally, a you're shooting up above 200%.
Click to expand...

What can you buy a house for in Mississippi? In San Francisco it is over $650,000. I believe the medium in the U.S. is around $200k. Therefore there are definitely places where you can by homes for $80 - $100k. If you make $40k in that type of neighborhood you can lead a middle class lifestyle.

Yes there are obviously some differences. I'm not trying to say they are the exact same. But look at the cost ratios.
 
Watermark said:
That's a nitpick if I've ever heard one. If the segment of the population who just happened to make a million dollars and took off a year to write a novel were very large they'd probably take it into account.

Hint: it's not.
Click to expand...

No, its not large. But if two people do not marry and one works and the other stays home, one of those has no income.

Many retirees do not have an income as defined in some studies.

None of these may account for the majority, but they do sway the numbers a bit.
 
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