Iran Snubs Obama: What now?

Damocles

Damocles

Accedo!
Staff member
President Barack Obama's olive branch to Iran was seriously snubbed in the past couple of days as key figures within the Islamic nation made it clear that they have no interest in talking with America unless we change our policies.

Even worse, an Iranian government spokesman said Obama's statement on Al Arabiya Wednesday concerning a willingness to talk to Iran "means Western ideology has become passive, that capitalist thought and the system of domination have failed."

Might this alter the press's repeated view the previous eight years that tensions in the Middle East were largely caused by President Bush's refusal to talk to Iran without preconditions concerning that nation's nuclear buildup, and that all would be well in the world if we would just agree to meet with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on any terms?

Such analysis seems critical given Saturday's report from Xinhua:

Iran's government spokesman Gholam-Hossein Elham on Saturday urged the United States to change its policy towards Iran and the world, saying the country has no choice.

Responding to the U.S. offer of direct talks between Iran and the United States, Elham said that "there remains no choice for the United States but change, and this change is determined to be done," Iran's Mehr news agency reported.

Link: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...ubs-obama-what-will-media-think-diplomacy-now
 
I honestly can't remember anyone saying all would be well with the world if Obama met w/ Ahmadinejad. But I didn't pay attention to everything.
 
Onceler said:
I honestly can't remember anyone saying all would be well with the world if Obama met w/ Ahmadinejad. But I didn't pay attention to everything.
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It's okay, you probably haven't paid attention to much in your retarded life. I'm sure you were just caught up in the hoopla over Obama, and missed it, but his supporters certainly made us believe things would be different if we could just get rid of Bush and his policies. The whole world hated us, and it was all the fault of Bush... none of this ringing a bell with you? If we would just change the "cowboy diplomacy" and try to better understand their plight... still not familiar? Well, I know the publicity about meeting with Ahmadinejad without preconditions is familiar, it was widely reported on, and the focus of much scrutiny during the election, and was mentioned several times during the debates.

See Onzies, I think the thing is, you don't want to remember! Now that your boy has been elected, you want to conveniently forget about all the absolute bullshit and smoke you people blew up peoples asses to get him elected, and that is likely not going to happen. I think your memory loss problem will end up being 'epic' before all is said and done. You got a lotta shit to forget between now and the next election.
 
"but his supporters certainly made us believe things would be different if we could just get rid of Bush and his policies"

And they already are, and our standing in the world is already much better. I'm loving it.

However, if you could - please provide some sort of quote or proof that people were saying "all would be well with the world" once Obama just spoke to Iran.
 
Anything on this one, Dix? Any quote from Obama, anyone in his campaign or the media where they said a meeting with Iran would fix the planet, and "make all well with the world?"

Shouldn't be too hard to google...
 
Onceler said:
"but his supporters certainly made us believe things would be different if we could just get rid of Bush and his policies"

And they already are, and our standing in the world is already much better. I'm loving it.

However, if you could - please provide some sort of quote or proof that people were saying "all would be well with the world" once Obama just spoke to Iran.
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You think our standing in the world is better because some euro-socialists say they like us now? I'd rather they continue to hate us and our evil capitalist system.
 
Onceler said:
Anything on this one, Dix? Any quote from Obama, anyone in his campaign or the media where they said a meeting with Iran would fix the planet, and "make all well with the world?"

Shouldn't be too hard to google...
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It was certainly inferred. But this brings up a point, that Obama basically didn't say much of anything during his campaign, so he can't be tied down to much. *shrug*
 
Southern Man said:
It was certainly inferred. But this brings up a point, that Obama basically didn't say much of anything during his campaign, so he can't be tied down to much. *shrug*
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Really? It was "inferred"?

Obama, or anyone, "inferred" that meeting with Iran would make ALL "well with the world?"

Wow. I certainly did miss that campaign.
 
While it is true that Obama's overtures to Iran have been viewed with some scepticism or outright hostility within some elements of the Iranian government there have also been signs of encouragement towards such an approach.

Anyone following the machinations of Iranian politics should be aware that even Machiavelli would be struggle to work out in which direction it was going. Iranian hard-liners, used to a belligerent American attitude, may very well see Obama as merely a softer voice preaching the same message. Reformers see a chance to rebuild relationships and solve regional problems while Iranian pragmatists and opportunists see a chance to use American détente to boost the tanking Iranian economy. Is it any wonder America is receiving mixed messages?

Did America really expect the Iranians to drop to their knees and weep tears of joy because Obama said he'd, maybe, like to come round for a chat, if he's not too busy?

From an Iranian point of view America overthrew their government and installed an autocratic dictatorship, which they then supported for nearly 30 years. Then America gave lots of money and chemicals to Mr Saddam Hussein, who used to live next door, you know? This caused a little local difficulty during the 1980s, when Mr Hussein decided to extend his garden into Tehran. More recently America dubbed Iran part of the "axis of evil", rebuffed all attempted Iranian overtures and consistently refused to rule out the possibility of a sudden military assault. A nice new President isn't going to assuage Iranian scepticism overnight.

Most Americans seem to have a different perception of themselves and the role of their country in Iranian history, mainly beginning with the hostage crisis of '79. Obama's speech made reference to American willingness to extend the hand of friendship if only others would "unclench their fist". Many Iranians would vehemently argue that the reverse was true, hence Ahmedinejad's speech calling for an American apology for it's "anti-Iranian" actions (plus a little grandstanding for domestic consumption, focussing on June's Iranian Presidential elections, of course). Both sides want to be portrayed as victims of the other's aggression, neither want to make concessions.

Until both sides can get over the disputes of the past the problems of the present will drag on interminably but following a course of possibility is much more likely to lead to something concrete, in the longer term, rather than continuing the previous petty policy of foot-stamping, pouting and name-calling.
 
charver said:
While it is true that Obama's overtures to Iran have been viewed with some scepticism or outright hostility within some elements of the Iranian government there have also been signs of encouragement towards such an approach.

Anyone following the machinations of Iranian politics should be aware that even Machiavelli would be struggle to work out in which direction it was going. Iranian hard-liners, used to a belligerent American attitude, may very well see Obama as merely a softer voice preaching the same message. Reformers see a chance to rebuild relationships and solve regional problems while Iranian pragmatists and opportunists see a chance to use American détente to boost the tanking Iranian economy. Is it any wonder America is receiving mixed messages?

Did America really expect the Iranians to drop to their knees and weep tears of joy because Obama said he'd, maybe, like to come round for a chat, if he's not too busy?

From an Iranian point of view America overthrew their government and installed an autocratic dictatorship, which they then supported for nearly 30 years. Then America gave lots of money and chemicals to Mr Saddam Hussein, who used to live next door, you know? This caused a little local difficulty during the 1980s, when Mr Hussein decided to extend his garden into Tehran. More recently America dubbed Iran part of the "axis of evil", rebuffed all attempted Iranian overtures and consistently refused to rule out the possibility of a sudden military assault. A nice new President isn't going to assuage Iranian scepticism overnight.

Most Americans seem to have a different perception of themselves and the role of their country in Iranian history, mainly beginning with the hostage crisis of '79. Obama's speech made reference to American willingness to extend the hand of friendship if only others would "unclench their fist". Many Iranians would vehemently argue that the reverse was true, hence Ahmedinejad's speech calling for an American apology for it's "anti-Iranian" actions (plus a little grandstanding for domestic consumption, focussing on June's Iranian Presidential elections, of course). Both sides want to be portrayed as victims of the other's aggression, neither want to make concessions.

Until both sides can get over the disputes of the past the problems of the present will drag on interminably but following a course of possibility is much more likely to lead to something concrete, in the longer term, rather than continuing the previous petty policy of foot-stamping, pouting and name-calling.
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Yes, many Americans really do expect this, and almost all of us have this self-pitying idea that with all the "good" we do in the world and all of the money we give to those foreigners (Americans have no concept of how little we actually do give especially in comparison to some other nations, taking into account gdp) why are they always hating on us? Does no good American deed to unpunished?

And of course we carry the mantel of American-exceptionlism within us, because we all bought that and have even internalized it, beliving ourselves to not only be morally superior and more godly than others as a nation, but also as individuals.

And of course, the above article came from the right wing idiots over at newsbusters, so it would have zero nuance to it.
 
Southern Man said:
I figured that you had, along with about 50 million other minions.
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Well, let's have it then. Since it was so prominent in the campaign - and I somehow missed it - it shouldn't be too hard to google a quote or article or anything else that would show it was somehow inferred that meeting with Iran would solve all the world's problems.
 
Onceler said:
Well, let's have it then. Since it was so prominent in the campaign - and I somehow missed it - it shouldn't be too hard to google a quote or article or anything else that would show it was somehow inferred that meeting with Iran would solve all the world's problems.
Click to expand...
Again, Obama basically didn't say much of anything during his campaign, so he can't be tied down to much. *shrug*
 
Onceler said:
You said Obama inferred. You must be able to find something.
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Nah, he said this:

Southern Man said:
It was certainly inferred. But this brings up a point, that Obama basically didn't say much of anything during his campaign, so he can't be tied down to much. *shrug*
Click to expand...

"It was inferred", according to previous remarks referred to "minions" not to Obama. Come on Onceler, you know better than to make categorical statements that can easily be refuted simply by reading some posts up on a page...
 
Damocles said:
Nah, he said this:



"It was inferred", according to previous remarks referred to "minions" not to Obama. Come on Onceler, you know better than to make categorical statements that can easily be refuted simply by reading some posts up on a page...
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You started this thread with the absurd contention that it was said that "all would be well with the world" if Obama just talked to Iran. Dixie & SM chime in to take that even further, and you take issue with my comment.

Once again, I will challenge anyone to find me one article, campaign person or anyone of note who asserted that.
 
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