Is the surge working?

Socrtease said:
I think the point is we were told that AFTER the surge we would get a reduction from the ORIGINAL 132,000. You are doing Dem math here Damo. Remember when the dems used to call a smaller than expected increase in social spending a cut? We this is the same thing. Only we got the increase and now they have sent 10k home and called it a decrease in the number of troops instead of following through with their original claim that they would REDUCE the number of troops fromtheir pre surge numbers, or so they wanted us to believe.
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Not really. I don't suspect that the decrease in troops ends at the end of the surge.

See, the Surge is an increase of troops, the time you end it is when you are no longer going to increase them. At the end of the plan they were supposed to have 150K, instead they have 140K, why? Because they were able to hand over portions of Iraq earlier than they had thought they would.

Decreasing the level of troops is not called a "surge" it is in fact the opposite of a "surge"...

Thus you enter a new stage, that is no longer "surge"....
 
Damocles said:
Not really. I don't suspect that the decrease in troops ends at the end of the surge.

See, the Surge is an increase of troops, the time you end it is when you are no longer going to increase them. At the end of the plan they were supposed to have 150K, instead they have 140K, why? Because they were able to hand over portions of Iraq earlier than they had thought they would.
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OMFG.




For those who don't rely on Drudge and Fox News, This is Iraq:

Monday, February 25, 2008

60 Dead, 105 wounded in Attack on Shiite Pilgrims;
Turkish invaders Kill 33 PKK Guerrillas;
2 US Soldiers Killed;

juancole.com


Nir Rosen has been on the ground recently in Baghdad, not embedded, and he reports on the downsides of the troop escalation the Bush administration calls the "surge," which include the ethnic cleansing of the Sunnis of Baghdad and the US paying millions to gunmen who were al-Qaeda a couple of months ago.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18722376/the_myth_of_the_surge
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Damocles said:
Which is sooner than previously stated would ever happen. Just a year ago they were talking 40 years to "quell an insurgency" on average...
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It will not happen, I said prior to the invasion 40 years, I still hold to that number. We will be lied to for about 40 years to come that the end is merley another 6 years away.
 
Damocles said:
Not really. I don't suspect that the decrease in troops ends at the end of the surge.

See, the Surge is an increase of troops, the time you end it is when you are no longer going to increase them. At the end of the plan they were supposed to have 150K, instead they have 140K, why? Because they were able to hand over portions of Iraq earlier than they had thought they would.

Decreasing the level of troops is not called a "surge" it is in fact the opposite of a "surge"...

Thus you enter a new stage, that is no longer "surge"....
Click to expand...

You are forgetting about "Pause"!
 
Damocles said:
Not really. I don't suspect that the decrease in troops ends at the end of the surge.

See, the Surge is an increase of troops, the time you end it is when you are no longer going to increase them. At the end of the plan they were supposed to have 150K, instead they have 140K, why? Because they were able to hand over portions of Iraq earlier than they had thought they would.

Decreasing the level of troops is not called a "surge" it is in fact the opposite of a "surge"...

Thus you enter a new stage, that is no longer "surge"....
Click to expand...


OK. After the surge we will have less than during the surge but we will still have more than before the surge.

Once again, where is the "beginning to leave" part? Do you concede that the surge is not allowing us to begin to leave considering we will have a larger troop presence than prior to the surge?
 
Dungheap said:
OK. After the surge we will have less than during the surge but we will still have more than before the surge.

Once again, where is the "beginning to leave" part? Do you concede that the surge is not allowing us to begin to leave considering we will have a larger troop presence than prior to the surge?
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The surge worked, it allowed to confuse the situation such that Bush was able to perminantly install an additional 20,000 troops and call it a victory!
 
Dungheap said:
OK. After the surge we will have less than during the surge but we will still have more than before the surge.

Once again, where is the "beginning to leave" part? Do you concede that the surge is not allowing us to begin to leave considering we will have a larger troop presence than prior to the surge?
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That will be after the surge. Again disingenuous. The surge isn't removing the troops. The end of the surge is when we are not increasing troop numbers. The beginning of the redeployment is when troop numbers go down. In between is the time that they are supposed to be giving security so that laws can be passed and training can be done.

It appears to be showing progress, even if we don't like it. And like to play with the numbers and call a surge a withdrawal table.
 
Damocles said:
That will be after the surge. Again disingenuous. The surge isn't removing the troops. The end of the surge is when we are not increasing troop numbers. The beginning of the redeployment is when troop numbers go down. In between is the time that they are supposed to be giving security so that laws can be passed and training can be done.

It appears to be showing progress, even if we don't like it. And like to play with the numbers and call a surge a withdrawal table.
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Dont forget "Pause"!

Remember back when the surge was a 6 month deal?
 
Jarod said:
Dont forget "Pause"!

Remember back when the surge was a 6 month deal?
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Yup. I think those are numbers games. How long did it take to get the surge completed? Now there is the "six months" then withdrawal. I think we'll see some withdrawal around Sept. to Oct... Just in time for elections.
 
Damocles said:
Yup. I think those are numbers games. How long did it take to get the surge completed? Now there is the "six months" then withdrawal. I think we'll see some withdrawal around Sept. to Oct... Just in time for elections.
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Funny how that works.
 
How many times over the past few years has it been suggested by the Republican establishment that the Iraq war was almost over?
 
Jarod said:
How many times over the past few years has it been suggested by the Republican establishment that the Iraq war was almost over?
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How many times has it been made clear that McCain/(Democrat) is not "establishment"?
 
Jarod said:
How many times over the past few years has it been suggested by the Republican establishment that the Iraq war was almost over?
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McCain has made several suggestions over the years, that "victory is in sight". Including yesterday.
 
John "Victory is in sight" McCain

I hope thats what Obama calls him in the first debate!
 
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