Israeli archaeologists ; ' Exodus ' is a fraud. The Jews were never in Egypt. ' Passover ' is myth.

[moon]

In fact, everything in the Old Testament pertaining to the Jews being in Egypt is fraudulent- including ' Passover '. There was never any ' escape from Egypt ', no pursuit by any Pharaoh, no ' parting of the waves '. It's all hogwash- myth to be polite. There wasn't even any name ' David '.

It's about time that the Zionist thieves of Israel - which didn't exist until 1948- got ' passed over ' at the next round of sharing out Americans' money to unworthy foreign causes.

Passover - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

' This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, Jehovah, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai. Most of those who are engaged in scientific work in the interlocking spheres of the Bible, archaeology and the history of the Jewish people – and who once went into the field looking for proof to corroborate the Bible story – now agree that the historic events relating to the stages of the Jewish people’s emergence are radically different from what that story tells. '

Ze’ev Herzog and the historicity of the Bible - Noah Kennedy

Explore Noah Kennedy's discussion with Dr. Ze'ev Herzog on the historicity of biblical stories. Gain insights from a distinguished Israeli archaeologist

noahkennedy.net

 

[Cypress]

'There was never any ' escape from Egypt ', no pursuit by any Pharaoh, no ' parting of the waves '. It's all hogwash- myth to be polite.

Why do stories from the Hebrew bible make you so angry?
I don't know anyone here who thinks the bible is a work of history and biography in the modern sense. That said, slaves can't be expected to leave an archeological footprint, and probably 99 percent of everything that happened in Egypt 3,500 years ago does not survive into the modern era in written accounts.

There wasn't even any name ' David '.

Let's get the facts right,
there is 9th century BC archeological data, in the form of inscribed stele, that refers to the House of David.

 

[Walt]

In fact, everything in the Old Testament pertaining to the Jews being in Egypt is fraudulent- including ' Passover '. There was never any ' escape from Egypt ', no pursuit by any Pharaoh, no ' parting of the waves '. It's all hogwash- myth to be polite. There wasn't even any name ' David '.

You actually start out with a point, but it collapses from there. The archaeological evidence for the Exodus is very weak. It appears that the Egyptians were in Israel at the time, and the closest thing to the Exodus was driving the Egyptians out.

The evidence for a united monarchy between Israel and Judea is also weak. It might have happened, but probably did not.

The evidence of David is stronger. While he may never have been King of Israel, he almost certainly existed. The Jews were absolutely in Judea. Jerusalem was definitely their capital.

 

[moon]

' The only group from which Herzog related getting indignant personal responses were from American Christians, from whom he received some angry letters warning him of the divine retribution headed his way. As an American traveler who is perhaps is vulnerable to media stereotypes of how irrationally religious those people in the faraway Middle East are, it was gentle and funny comeuppance. '

Amen.

 

[Cypress]

' The only group from which Herzog related getting indignant personal responses were from American Christians, from whom he received some angry letters warning him of the divine retribution headed his way. As an American traveler who is perhaps is vulnerable to media stereotypes of how irrationally religious those people in the faraway Middle East are, it was gentle and funny comeuppance. '

Amen.

You still haven't explained why stories in the Hebrew bible make you angry. In what way do they negatively reflect on your life?

There are mythological elements to Exodus. Parting the Red Sea is a myth. Whether or not there are kernels of truth in Exodus is open to debate.

It is piss poor reasoning to make declarative, unequivocal statement that Israelites definitely were not in Egypt or migrated out of Egypt. The New Kingdom of Egypt had definitely conquered areas of the Lavant, and archeological data confirm that the Egyptians on the 13th century BC knew of a people called the Israelites.

Its fair to say we don't have written evidence of Israelites in Egypt. But it's not fair to say we definitely know they weren't there. It's not unimaginable that the pharaohs of the New Kingdom brought booty and indentured servants from the conquered lands in the Levant to the Nile Valley.

 

[Cypress]

You actually start out with a point, but it collapses from there. The archaeological evidence for the Exodus is very weak. It appears that the Egyptians were in Israel at the time, and the closest thing to the Exodus was driving the Egyptians out.

The evidence for a united monarchy between Israel and Judea is also weak. It might have happened, but probably did not.

The evidence of David is stronger. While he may never have been King of Israel, he almost certainly existed. The Jews were absolutely in Judea. Jerusalem was definitely their capital.

There is a 12th century BC inscribed stele in Egypt showing that as early as that the Egyptians knew there were a people called Israelites.

 

[moon]

You still haven't explained why stories in the Hebrew bible make you angry. In what way do they negatively reflect on your life?

You are confused. I'm not angry. All those people celebrating an event that did not happen simply adds to the chapters of religious mass-hallucination that plague the world today. I'm resigned to such stupidity. That's not anger.

 

[Cypress]

I'm not angry. All those people celebrating an event that did not happen simply adds to the chapters of religious mass-hallucination that plague the world today.

Sounds like you are angry.

Explain how Jewish people celebrating the story of Exodus in ritual and ceremony negatively impacts your life.

 

[Kafka]

I have indeed read that there is very little to no actual archeological evidence of Israelites being held as a huge population of slaves in Egypt. No evidence in the Sinai of long-term "wandering" by the nation of Israel.

It's always interesting having spent a lifetime watching Charlton Heston every Easter as he commanded Pharoah and the awesome Red Sea parting and simply assuming "Yeah this is all true" and finding out it may not have been.

What might be FAR more interesting is why this chapter of the "history" of the Jewish people became part of their history. There must have been some need within the society to build a mythos around overcoming oppression by a foreign power. Certainly they learned that the hard way throughout their history. Maybe that was it.

Why do the American people hold the myths we do? That Washington chopped down a cherry tree, etc. We do it so we can tell ourselves about the virtues we want to see within ourselves. We tell ourselves our stories about ourselves to give us a common parlance, a common currency of belief.

In the end there really isn't anything WRONG with it. It's not like Israel is bombing Cairo to make them pay for what Pharoah did. It is, however, now an integral part of their "common currency of belief".

 

[Kafka]

You are confused. I'm not angry.

I'm curious why people need to tell others what they think their emotional state is.

All those people celebrating an event that did not happen simply adds to the chapters of religious mass-hallucination that plague the world today. I'm resigned to such stupidity. That's not anger.

To be fair you did then follow it up with a screed about the Zionist thieves, so it did kinda sound like this is a bit more than just concern over why people believe things that may not have happened.

 

[Kafka]

The evidence of David is stronger. While he may never have been King of Israel, he almost certainly existed. The Jews were absolutely in Judea. Jerusalem was definitely their capital.

I have read that scholars find that the early descriptions of David when he was on the run (before becoming King) he is running around Israel visiting cities that didn't exist at the agreed upon time when this is all supposed to have happened.

I love seeing little gems like that. Not because it paints the story as "made up after the fact" but rather because it shows us how these stories came down to us. How they were "built". It is like getting inside the Statue of LIberty and seeing how it is all held together.

Same thing with the various inconsistencies in the Gospels. It's utterly fascinating to see the real hand of man behind the stories.

 

[moon]

I'm curious why people need to tell others what they think their emotional state is.

Why do they ask ? Weirdos.

 

[moon]

Explain how Jewish people celebrating the story of Exodus in ritual and ceremony negatively impacts your life.

Perhaps you haven't read about the 40,000 + dead Palestinians , including around 20,000 children. That's the danger of applied lies and consequent Jewish barbarity.

 

[Kafka]

Why do they ask ? Weirdos.

Cypress tends to put people into two buckets: "people he likes" and "people he hates with the fire of a thousand suns". If you are in the latter then there is literally no time that Cypress will talk to you that he isn't attacking you.

It's weird but not really that weird. I've met that kind of person before. Their kind of pathetic but not all bad.

 

[moon]

Cypress tends to put people into two buckets: "people he likes" and "people he hates with the fire of a thousand suns". If you are in the latter then there is literally no time that Cypress will talk to you that he isn't attacking you.

It's weird but not really that weird. I've met that kind of person before. Their kind of pathetic but not all bad.

He prefers war to peace. He also fabricates other people's motives to comply with his preconditioning. He has me marked as a Russophile antisemite with the hots for Marine Le Pen.

He won't take denials for an answer.

Haw, haw.......................................................haw.

 

[Walt]

There is a 12th century BC inscribed stele in Egypt showing that as early as that the Egyptians knew there were a people called Israelites.

There were definitely a people called the Israelites in what is today northern Israel, and there were definitely Jews in what is today southern Israel. That is beyond doubt.

 

[Walt]

I have read that scholars find that the early descriptions of David when he was on the run (before becoming King) he is running around Israel visiting cities that didn't exist at the agreed upon time when this is all supposed to have happened.

I love seeing little gems like that. Not because it paints the story as "made up after the fact" but rather because it shows us how these stories came down to us. How they were "built". It is like getting inside the Statue of LIberty and seeing how it is all held together.

Same thing with the various inconsistencies in the Gospels. It's utterly fascinating to see the real hand of man behind the stories.

We go from Saul, who had an extensive bureaucracy, to David, who mostly had an extensive family. It is a jarring difference, almost like they are in different countries. Saul is living in a country that was the Kingdom of Israel, and David lived in the Kingdom of Judea. There is a claim that they were unified for a few decades a three thousand years ago, but those stories barely work.

I am not saying there was never a unified monarchy, but it is questionable.

What could have happened is when the Kingdom of Israel collapsed (a historical fact), educated Israelites fled to Judea, bringing their stories. The stories of Saul were integrated into the stories of David.

Later when the Kingdom of Judea collapsed(a historical fact), the Jews were exiled to Babylon(another historical fact), and then returned, they expanded out into a mostly empty Israel. They were always in Judea(except for the exile).

There is another group there also. The Samaritans are named after Samara, the capital of Kingdom of Israel. They call themselves the Israelites. They use paleo-Hebrew, just like the Kingdom of Israel. It begins to look like they are descendants from the few remaining Israelites who were not lost or absorbed into the Jews.

 

[Cypress]

We go from Saul, who had an extensive bureaucracy, to David, who mostly had an extensive family. It is a jarring difference, almost like they are in different countries. Saul is living in a country that was the Kingdom of Israel, and David lived in the Kingdom of Judea. There is a claim that they were unified for a few decades a three thousand years ago, but those stories barely work.

I am not saying there was never a unified monarchy, but it is questionable.

What could have happened is when the Kingdom of Israel collapsed (a historical fact), educated Israelites fled to Judea, bringing their stories. The stories of Saul were integrated into the stories of David.

Later when the Kingdom of Judea collapsed(a historical fact), the Jews were exiled to Babylon(another historical fact), and then returned, they expanded out into a mostly empty Israel. They were always in Judea(except for the exile).

There is another group there also. The Samaritans are named after Samara, the capital of Kingdom of Israel. They call themselves the Israelites. They use paleo-Hebrew, just like the Kingdom of Israel. It begins to look like they are descendants from the few remaining Israelites who were not lost or absorbed into the Jews.

Nice to see posters who are interested and diligent about learning history.

The insight I had a few years ago is that the West Bank itself is really the heart of ancient Judea. That made the modern political issues over the West Bank more comprehensible to me.

 

[Cypress]

Perhaps you haven't read about the 40,000 + dead Palestinians , including around 20,000 children. That's the danger of applied lies and consequent Jewish barbarity.

So your saying they biblical story of Exodus is responsible for violence in Gaza, and not the October 7 sneak attack by Hamad6.

 

[Cypress]

He also fabricates other people's motives to comply with his preconditioning.

I don't have to fabricate anything

You used the Gaza crisis to grant yourself carte blanche to indulge your worst instincts about Jews. You have made sure to write "Jew scum" or "subhuman Jews" in almost every thread you have started in the last 8 months

The Israeli Jews are degenerate scum.

^^ That's quite a blanket statement and a whole lotta hate.